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Dom wrote:hopefully the bolt chopper removed the dangerous bolts on Anubis as well...
/Cory, there have been several serious falls at this crag on 5.7-5.9 ground. Folks like Adam have been around long enough to help carry out the victims on a litter. Have you?coryhal wrote:... besides who falls clipping on 5.8 terrain when their climbing a 5.10.
coryhal wrote:, besides who falls clipping on 5.8 terrain when their climbing a 5.10.
coryhal wrote:besides who falls clipping on 5.8 terrain when their climbing a 5.10
STeveA wrote:People should keep in mind that we are talking about retro bolts on Sticky Fingers. While I did not remove the bolt, I do not miss it. If you remove the other bolt then I think you are being childish and I will not be replacing it for you. If people want to discuss other climbs they should start a seperate posting instead of making comparisons that are not appropriate. I have been involved in bolts wars before, and I am not afraid to get involved again. Leave my routes alone, or suffer the consequences!
Lucas wrote:We are loosing sight of what the original objection to the second bolt was; that it changed the nature of the climb and that traditional protection is available in that area. To go and chop the second bolt would be unproductive, actually create the potential for ground fall and further scar the rock.
*Chris* wrote:Anders and I had an interesting chat about this yesterday while out cripple-cragging. He told me that in many European areas, the local ethic is for FA's to equip routes with bolts that can be easily removed. It is expected that within a few years, the community will re-evaluate any bolt placements, making additions, moves, and removals as they see fit for safety and style. There is an implicit understanding that the FA won't necessarily get it right the first time. After a few years, better beta, or experience from needlessly bad falls leads to the original bolts being pulled, and being replaced by glue-ins in the optimal spots. The style of the FA is considered... but is in no way sacrosanct. I thought it was worth sharing. Anders can correct me if I lost anything in translation.
Nihoa wrote: is a removal of the wishy washy emotional ethic and using logic to determine what should be done.
Adam wrote:STeveA wrote:People should keep in mind that we are talking about retro bolts on Sticky Fingers. While I did not remove the bolt, I do not miss it. If you remove the other bolt then I think you are being childish and I will not be replacing it for you. If people want to discuss other climbs they should start a seperate posting instead of making comparisons that are not appropriate. I have been involved in bolts wars before, and I am not afraid to get involved again. Leave my routes alone, or suffer the consequences!
Steve, you have to pick a stance and stick with it. Earlier in this same thread you agreed both bolts should be removed. flower or get off the pot.
STeveA wrote:If you cannot tell the difference between a joke and someone being serious then you have a problem!
Adam wrote: as it is now, if someone falls there and is hurt, i will feel responsibility b/c i DO feel the potential is there now and i'll be kicking myself if i don't go remove the bolt.
Adam wrote: i put two bolts in precisely to prevent that situation. as it is now, if someone falls there and is hurt, i will feel responsibility b/c i DO feel the potential is there now and i'll be kicking myself if i don't go remove the bolt. u may not agree with my reasoning but my hand has been forced
Adam wrote:Lucas wrote:We are loosing sight of what the original objection to the second bolt was; that it changed the nature of the climb and that traditional protection is available in that area. To go and chop the second bolt would be unproductive, actually create the potential for ground fall and further scar the rock.
i've not lost sight. i placed the two bolts in relation to each other. now the 2nd one is there but the first is not and the potential for ground fall is there. had people been willing to discuss instead of act rashly, then i wouldn't be doing this. removing the 2nd bolt IMHO has to be done to either force the climber to keep right on mammalian and place gear, or for someone to replace the original with a single bolt that people won't cry about, and yet still leaves the climb safe.
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