Trad climbing course

[ben smith]

thats because figure skating and downhill skiing are for pansies wearing lycra and brightly coloured tights.

[martha]

Are you serious?? Are we talking about the same thing? An entry barrier to a sport and training to the Olympic level are unrelated. You suggested it would take a year of apprentice to be able to trad climb safely and competently at an amateur level.

I could rent a pair of skis, receive 30 minutes of instruction, hit the bunny hill and ski safely. Same goes for figure skating. I would suck, but I could be having good, safe fun. Would you feel comfortable giving someone 30 minutes of instruction and sending them out to trad climb on their own? Hence the entry barrier…

Hell, if could go to the Olympics climbing trad in 1 year sign me up!

I should have said an 'amature level' not 'professional level' because to be 'competent' which is what I was really getting at.. you'd need more than just a 30 min lesson in either skiing or skating.

Anyways, don't cry about an entry barrier to trad climbing being the apprenticeship, your biggest entry barrier is Halifax. You aren't close enough to any trad area that has a significant number of easy trad climbs with good gear to get any practice or mileage. You are a boulderer obviously... I am not. I could care less if I ever boulder. If you REALLY wanted to be a competent trad climber.... nothing would stop you. there would be no barrier. you would make it happen.

[dquinn]

I should have said an 'amature level' not 'professional level' because to be 'competent' which is what I was really getting at.. you'd need more than just a 30 min lesson in either skiing or skating.

Anyways, don't cry about an entry barrier to trad climbing being the apprenticeship, your biggest entry barrier is Halifax. You are a boulderer obviously... I am not. I could care less if I ever boulder.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I am an avid snowboarder and 30 mins was all the instruction I ever recieved. As for skating... I can safely skate around on my lake and I never actually had any real instruction.

I guess the difference is that you can snowboard and skate safely before you are "competent", but if you trad climb before you are competent you will probablly die. Even sports like skateboarding which have a steep learning curve, you only need $100 and zero instruction to scoot around and only risk minor bumps and bruises. In fact, I'm sure many pro skaters started out this way. Despite the steep learning curve, there is almost zero entry barrier. Nearly ever other sport is similar. Pond hockey, soccer, yoga, baseball, biking, karate, boxing, skiing, track and field... the list goes on and on. A few minutes instruction, the proper safety gear and you are on your way. They may be hard to learn, but they are easy to get in to. You can safey learn on your own with minimal instruction. Not the case for trad. You can have all the safety gear in the world, but it still won't help without TONNES of instruction. It stands out among sports in this respect.

My point is, for better or for worse, there is no denying that trad climbing has a huge entry barrier compared to most other sports. The cost is also prohibitive. But if trad climbing floats your boat, go nuts. Hell, it may be awsome, but because of the entry barrier I'll probablly never know. I don't really care either way, but the purpose of my original post was to sarcastically point this out.

[dquinn]

thats because figure skating and downhill skiing are for pansies wearing lycra and brightly coloured tights.

haha, yeah climbers are way more hardcore. Two years ago, some dude sessioned at the rock court in boxer briefs while I was there. Just boxer briefs. Another dude sessioned in a thong. Luckily he was wearing shorts, even if they sagged too low for my comfort zone. Were you on dover this summer when Cooper's junk fell out? Who needs the form fitting breathability of lycra when climbers can go o'naturale

[martha]

thats because figure skating and downhill skiing are for pansies wearing lycra and brightly coloured tights.

You ever see climbers from the 80's?

[martha]

The cost is also prohibitive. But if trad climbing floats your boat, go nuts. Hell, it may be awsome, but because of the entry barrier I'll probablly never know. I don't really care either way, but the purpose of my original post was to sarcastically point this out.

In your original post you actually said that 'trad climbing sucks ass' because of the entry barrier. My posts were only to defend that if you REALLY wanted to trad climb... no entry barrier would stop you... and that it DOESN'T 'suck ass'.

Also.. the cost is high for trad climbing I agree. But the cost is also high to get protective/safety hockey gear, skis/snowboard and gear (or renting them every weekend), a bike etc. Nothing is 'cheap' except maybe track and field.. cause I suppose you 'could' run barefoot.

[Pierre]

Nothing is 'cheap' except maybe track and field.. cause I suppose you 'could' run barefoot.

From my personal experiences T & F is not cheap. Most of the major shoe companies don't sell their shoes or clothing to cheap ( Example Nike ).


I do have to agree with you that if you really want to Trad climb you will find a way. But in my opinion it's not going to be easy finding competent trad climber to show me the ropes. I'm not sure yet if I'm even rdy to venture into trad climbing but I know it's something I want to do and when the time comes I will pursue it. I know one thing I will not make the mistakes I did when learning the basics. I went out with ppl that claimed to be competent which later I learned knew very little. So there might be fair amount of trad climbers out there but how do know if they are safe and competent? So to me the biggest barrier is finding a good mentor to teach me the skills to trad climb safely. I'm assuming it takes a large time commitment and dedication for a apprectice to learn how to trad climb safely and competently which would mean that a mentor would have to be willing to give up alot of their time ( May not be easy to find someone willing to do this ).

Then maybe once I learn the skills the next barrier will be to finding partners to climb with. BTW the money spent in buying gear to me is not a barrier because it's seem like every recreational activity/sport cost money.

Later

[dcentral]

I don't really know why you are comparing Trad climbing and skating. Apples and oranges really. There really isn't much immentent death unless you don't know what thin ice means.

[granite_grrl]

I don't beleive that you have to go through an apprentiship exactally, but there is a fair bit of knowledge required for trad climbing.

Basic knowledge requires knowledge of good anchors and placements. I think that this can actually be learnt in a short period of time. What takes the real time is the speed in placing gear, gaining an eye for gear, and speed in equalizing anchors. It also takes a lot of time to get the confidence in the gear, knowing that stoppers are secure and that cams won't walk.

These things take time, and I can't really beleive that a course will actually give you this speed or confidence, logging time on the rock will.

As for apprentiship......its nice to have someone more advanced to look at their gear, but there are other things a person can do. Practicing gear placements and anchors at the base of the cliff, for example. Hell I know one guy who spends time in front of the TV building anchors out of table legs/cracks in furniture. Even though he has only spent one season climbing on gear he's relativly speedy. He has spent much more time with John Long's Anchor books than with a more experianced trad climbing, but because of his practice he's shapping up to be quite a compatent trad leader.

In the end you need to dedicate time, log miles, and recognize the extent of your abilities.

Rebecca

[martha]

I don't really know why you are comparing Trad climbing and skating. Apples and oranges really. There really isn't much immentent death unless you don't know what thin ice means.

I wasn't comparing their safety factors. I was comparing the cost/time entry barrier.

[dquinn]

I don't really know why you are comparing Trad climbing and skating. Apples and oranges really. There really isn't much immentent death unless you don't know what thin ice means.

I wasn't comparing their safety factors. I was comparing the cost/time entry barrier.

Which we can agree is VASTLY larger for Trad. Like about a million times. rough estimate.

[martha]

I don't really know why you are comparing Trad climbing and skating. Apples and oranges really. There really isn't much immentent death unless you don't know what thin ice means.

I wasn't comparing their safety factors. I was comparing the cost/time entry barrier.

Which we can agree is VASTLY larger for Trad. Like about a million times. rough estimate.

Which YOU can agree. I still don't 100%. There wasn't a huge barrier for me at all. I climbed with Fred about 3 or 4 days a week outside for the first couple years we were together and voila.. I learned. And it wasn't a big deal cause that is where we wanted to be and he didn't have any problems putting the time in with me etc.

So for me... there was no real barrier since we live about 45 min from Welsford and I apprenticed my bf at the time. For you.. and most others... I guess there is a big barrier. Guess that is your loss. ..my suggestion... if you want to learn trad... move closer to welsford or some other place like squamish, start dating a hard core trad chick and give up bouldering.

There ya go.

[Pierre]

[quote ="martha"]if you want to learn trad... move closer to welsford or some other place like squamish, start dating a hard core trad chick and give up bouldering. [/quote]

I don't think the wife would approve dating a hard core trad chick... I guess that I'm screwed when it comes to learning how to trad.

As I said before I think biggest barrier is finding competent partners, most of the ppl I climb with have less skills/knowledge of climbing than I do and approach climbing as a recreational activity. It would be nice to climb/boulder with ppl of greater climbing skills, I believe this would help in my own development as a climber.

Not everyone shares the same barriers and some barriers are circumstantial (ie like where you live, who you know ) I was introduced to climbing by a co-worker who was a safe and competent trad climber and I'm sure if he still lived in NB, I would be learning how to trad climb from him.

Later

[martha]

I don't think the wife would approve dating a hard core trad chick... I guess that I'm screwed when it comes to learning how to trad.

Good point Pierre! hehe.

Well, you are welcome to climb with us in Welsford anytime. You can check our references before hand to be confident that we know what we are doing. We'll be wanting a third party on our outings to Welsford this year so that one of us can always be on the ground with the baby. That means our third party will get in lots of climbing!

Cheers.

[vbpad]

ooo... ooo...me me

[Pierre]

ooo... ooo...me me

Hey vpad... Your not my type! Your not the hard core trad chic, Martha was talking about.

Martha, thanks for the offer. I'm hoping to get up to Welsford a lot more this year and would love the chance to climb with you guys or to baby sit

Pierre

[martha]

Maybe that is a way to get the wife more interested in climbing.. lure her out with the prospects of playing with a baby... and while she is out.. she can climb a little too...and might be comfortable climbing with me as women sometimes are more relaxed with other women.

though you may shoot yourself in the foot and end up with a wife who just wants babies and still doesn't want to climb... hehehe.

[vbpad]

yeah i guess that did come across as kind of awkward didn't it

[Pierre]

though you may shoot yourself in the foot and end up with a wife who just wants babies and still doesn't want to climb... hehehe.

She already wants the babies..... That's seems to be her mission in life is to be a mom.

If she's not pregnant by the summer I'll try and get her climbing outdoors. If pregnant by the summer maybe she will come up and watch...

might be comfortable climbing with me as women sometimes are more relaxed with other women.

I totally agree with you on this one.

Pierre

[martha]

She already wants the babies..... That's seems to be her mission in life is to be a mom.

That is nature working its best to keep the species going.

If she's not pregnant by the summer I'll try and get her climbing outdoors. If pregnant by the summer maybe she will come up and watch...

I am due in 7 days and was climbing last week. It is perfectly safe, and I have a harness that she could wear that is quite comfortable even over a baby bump. I have had no problems climbing right up to this moment... though perhaps I'm a little more obsessed than most.. There is no chance of her getting hurt at all while Top Roping, and as far as the movement and everything else..I've been though it all with my doc and everything is A-ok. if anything I have found the hiking a lot harder than the climbing.

[Nate]

Less talk of babies and track, more talk of people wanting to do this course. Conan, Pierre, whats the deal? Do you guys want to do this??
NAte

[chameleon]

I've seen Conan climb....he should definitely take the course!!!!

[Eager]

LOL
Cassinator you crack me up!

[The Mitt]

Nate not that I am taking a shot at you or anything but didn't you take a group of people out last summer and show them how to Climb traditionaly? If you did then why take the course?

Mitt

[Pierre]

more talk of people wanting to do this course. Conan, Pierre, whats the deal? Do you guys want to do this??

Hey Nate I'm Interested...

[seanT]

conan doesnt need the course just the proper motivation....remember the near beating you nearly took at First Face conan?

[johnthegreat]

Nate man you know I would be up for it if its in the summer.
John

[Nate]

Nope, I went on a climbing trip in the summer, but I wasn't teaching anybody anything. Same as when I go climbing with other people that are more experienced than me. They don't teach me stuff I just observe more things and learn a little each time that way, but I'd like some solid knowledge to work with instead of bits and pieces.

Piere, John, Jen and Collin, I'll give you more information as I get it from Nick and Heather.

Nate

[johnthegreat]

Sweet, thanks man I hope it'll go through.

[jnnfr]

Collin said he got your email Nate. Keep us updated!