trad

[renegade]

ive very little experience with trad climbing but i am trying to get started on my rack. i was just wondering if i were to buy some cams, what size/ range should i start out with?what are some good sizes for nova scotia rock? also, any recomendations as to which brand offers the best quality?

[The Teth]

I was in the same boat a couple of years ago. Sean T said to get a Wild Country #2.5 cam. I did, and it is probably the most used cam on my rack. I ordered a set of Robot Cams from Rock Empire, along with a ful set of Rock Empire nuts, over the internet. They are good quality and inexpensive. Probably the best bang for your buck. However, there is not much overlap between the sizes in the Robot Cam set so you may get into the situation where one cam is too big and the next one is too small. Fortunately for me the #2.5 Wild Country is half way between two of the Robot Cam sizes. As well as the Rock Empire nut set I also have a set of nuts from DMM which were a lot more expensive, but I find myself using the Rock Empire nuts most of the time.

The El Crimp Wall (bouldering area) at Haring Cove is a good place to practice placement. You can stand in one spot and place a full set of nuts. Then clip each one and bounce up and down on it to see how well you did at placing it. If you lay out a bouldering pad you can avoid bruises until your placements get good. This teaches you a lot about what will hold and what won’t.

The Teth

[martha]

BD camalots, #.5 and # .75 double up on them if you can.

BD stoppers (simlar to the old 'smileys' which in my opinion are the best nuts ever) ABC Huevos makes the smiley now, but you can't get them in canada.

Metolius tcu's are awesome. the blue and yellow are awesome. The number 1 and 2. The Metolius power cams are nice too, but I think the BD camalots offer better range coverage.

get a pink and red tricam and learn how to use these well. they will save your ass one day. I promise.

Really learn your passive gear. do many routes leaving your cams on the ground so that you get a handle on nuts, tricams and hexes. it is the best thing you could do for your trad climbing.

If you don't have double ropes, then invest in some long runners for trad climbing. keeping your rope drag to a minimum will make your experience more enjoyable.

have fun!!!

cara

[renegade]

thanks for the advice
i have currently no hexes but what size range would be good?
and same for the mec tcu's and power cams.... what sizes?

[The Mitt]

I believe the answer to your question is a question Where are you going to climb? Every place has different gear. I find that in NS my #1 and 1.5 Wild country cams get used the most. I started my rack with a full set of hexes, then nuts (ya gotta have nuts to climb). In between getting the hexes and nuts I got a 1 and then a 1.5 cam.

At the gunks many would say to get tri-cams. So its pretty area specific.

Anytime you wanna go out do some climbing let me know. Hope that helps.

Mitt

[The Mitt]

Here in NS I have used all sizes for hexes , I currently have 4-12 I think. Also Cara's advice is very sound passive gear first. I used to think cams were so much easrier to place until I had 2 walk out on me in one pitch, I believe that was at welsford on my fav route there light fandango (sp).

Mitt

[Peter]

I recommend trad lead climbing for a couple of years without any mechanical cams, which is how I learned. Learn to use nuts, hexes, tricams first, up to your maximum level of difficulty, and use cams only as the climbing gets much harder, forcing you to move faster and more efficiently to complete the route without pumping out. In those circumstances, mechanical devices become very useful, rather than just very expensive.

Peter "When you can snatch the pink tri-cam from my hand, it will be time for you to go" McVey

[granite_grrl]

BD camalots, #.5 and # .75 double up on them if you can.

BD stoppers (simlar to the old 'smileys' which in my opinion are the best nuts ever) ABC Huevos makes the smiley now, but you can't get them in canada.

Metolius tcu's are awesome. the blue and yellow are awesome. The number 1 and 2. The Metolius power cams are nice too, but I think the BD camalots offer better range coverage.

get a pink and red tricam and learn how to use these well. they will save your ass one day. I promise.

Really learn your passive gear. do many routes leaving your cams on the ground so that you get a handle on nuts, tricams and hexes. it is the best thing you could do for your trad climbing.

If you don't have double ropes, then invest in some long runners for trad climbing. keeping your rope drag to a minimum will make your experience more enjoyable.

have fun!!!

cara

I'm going to second most of this with a few additional comments.

BD vs Metolius Power Cams. I have the 0.5 BD and the #3 and #4 (orange and red) Power Cam. I almost always choose the Power Cams over the BD cam. I like that they still have 4 lobes and a much narrower head.

I carry the #0 to #2 (purple to yellow) TCUs, they're awesome. Check out aliens too though, I still think they're nice.

I never really liked hexes on the rough granite near Halifax, too many nubs for them to sit nicley. Used them at Welsford well, I use them on the limestone in Ontaio a lot. Some places they're great, some places they stay on the ground.

Love my BD stoppers! Hear Wild Country nuts are great too.

Double ropes are sweet, but they excel on longer pitches where drag can be bad. They also rock if you have to do a double rope rapell, that way you're not dragging a second line up with you. Though get some extendable runners, you can keep 'em short if the pitch doesn't wander, then clip 'em long if you need to too.

Remember your anchor system, some lockers and a cordalette or webolette (or be a pro and build all your anchors out of the rope). What ever suits your fancy.

I'll also add that while I have mostly Metolius cams on my rack I much prefer BD cams for the bigger sizes (boyfriend just gave me a #4 C4, yea-haw! what a man!).

Most important peice of info in this post: Every one likes different things, I think most preferences stems from what you get used to. the argument of the perfect rack will never be resolved. Go and use other people's racks, looks at their systems, play with their gear, then decide what you like best.

[The Teth]

Pink tri-cams are very handy. (Pink being the most used near Halifax, followed by red) You can put a tri-cam in a horizontal crack which you would not be able to put a nut into. Lots of horizontal cracks near Halifax. Practice with them. They can be a little trick to place, but once you get the hang of them you will use them all the time.

Big hexes are good for setting up top-rope anchors, as they fit well into the large cracks at the top of many cliffs. Also I once found myself in an area of sparse protection (no placements within reach) and did not want to do too much of a runout due to where I would end up if I fell. So I clipped a hex on a long sling, swung it around and let it fly, managing to make a perfect placement six feet above my head. Made two climps off the same piece of gear. Of course to do this you must have a large narrowing crack or split in the rock which you are also in a position to see. This is sort of the grapnel hook approach to trad climbing. I do not think you can do this with cams or nuts.

The Teth

[mathieu]

I strongly second Peter's advice. Forget about Cams until you are at your limit of your ability. Much more can be learned from passive placements, cams just can't be placed willy nilly, you have to have an eye for rock features that will hold a piece of gear.

Here's an analogy, Its sorta like acoustic guitar VS electric guitar, sure the electric guitar will dazzle your friends with your little impression of AC/DC thunderstruck but really doesn't do you any good if you can't play something simple like Knocking on Heavens door.

I'm sorta in the same boat with ice climbing pro. I know I'm not gonna lead any grade 4 this year (yes I know i'm a sissy but you would too after testing the dynamic properties of a rope while having sharp pointy objects straped to your extremities). The point is I can spend 70$+ on fancy ice screws with nice little spinny knobs but what's the point if all the pro I place is on ledges or other spots with good rests. Same applies to trad climbing, only when you start hitting the 8's that the sustained vertical part starts. Also there is no better feeling than sinking a #8 hex in a bomber crack.

I'd recommend the following (a bit welsford biased but granite is granite IMHO).

1 set of nuts (try different types, preference is key here)
a half set of nuts #5 to #10 of a different brand (diversity is key whilst tradding)
#5 to #10 Hex (I highly recommend trying the Metolius curved hex, hard to find but worth it)
Pink and Red tri-cam (if you do go to the gunks or hit the Rockies limestone get the next three sizes up)

I know i'm probably wasting my breath cause I told this advice to a few people and two months later there asking me again "so what sort of cam should I get". Also here's 2 golden words for trad climbing. ROUTE-FINDING and DOWNCLIMBING. Enough said.

Mathieu "the Rambler"

[Fred]

Just to be different, I'll say the complete opposite of everyone else.

Personaly, I think one came out does any piece of, what do you call them?, nuts? hexes? Go for the bling bling. Big shinny pieces with spings and stuff. So much more versatile than nuts and hexes. I'd use a cam over any passive gear any day. Plus they look way cooler on your rack. If you are as impatient as me you'll want to use gear that goes in and, more importantly, out quickly. There's nothing worse than waiting after your second while they try to retrieve a nut that you drove home in fear of death. Learn the power of cams my friend and you'll cruise the routes while others play with their nuts.

Don't listen to me though. I hate trad and only do it when I have to, plus I almost killed myself once doing it. Listen to Martha. She learned from the best and she is now head Jedi.

Final note: There is only one cam as far as I'm concerned and it's BD. Except in the smaller sizes below a BD 0.5. Then it's Metolius 3TCU or Aliens.

Recommendation: Scip trad and ice and just hit the boulders and sport. I know, I know... It's hard not to want to layback. I do it too when I have to.

My hands are sweating now thinking of climbing.

[martha]

. Also here's 2 golden words for trad climbing. ROUTE-FINDING and DOWNCLIMBING. Enough said.

Mathieu "the Rambler"

I second that. Listen to Mat, he is the king of trad and of the hex and sometimes, if you don't listen to him, he'll use them as a sort of mid-evil swinging weapon. I swear.

I will also repeat what I already said... Learn to use your passive gear and double ropes kick ass.

Have fun!

[Old School McGee]

Don't listen to any of those young whipper snappers. Just make yourself a hemp rope and forge a few pitons. You really only need a rope to bring the city-types up. If you want to climb any of the glaciers in Laggan just ask the local cobbler to make a pair of lug boots and get a mountain axe and your good to go.

Don't forget your wool knickers!

PS: Learn to body belay and to do a body wrap rappel so that you can get yourself up and down the mountain

PSS: Since when is climbing at little cliffs (crag you call them) considered an outing on itself. Why back in our days we used to call that training.

[mitchleblanc]

Also here's 2 golden words for trad climbing. ROUTE-FINDING and DOWNCLIMBING. Enough said.

Also, here's 2 golden words for trad climbing: TRAD SUCKS.

Seriously though, I am surprised at how many people are going on about hexes... I haven't seen anyone using hexes in ages. Hexes generally are totally replaced by cams, are they not? I would say (never trad climb) skip the hexes and just get cams/friends/slcd's, whatever they are called.

Why am I even posting?

Mitch

[martha]

Don't listen to any of those young whipper snappers. Just make yourself a hemp rope and forge a few pitons. You really only need a rope to bring the city-types up. If you want to climb any of the glaciers in Laggan just ask the local cobbler to make a pair of lug boots and get a mountain axe and your good to go.

Don't forget your wool knickers!

PS: Learn to body belay and to do a body wrap rappel so that you can get yourself up and down the mountain

PSS: Since when is climbing at little cliffs (crag you call them) considered an outing on itself. Why back in our days we used to call that training.

Sounds like someone has been watching the 'Eiger Sanction'. eh Old School Magee?!

[ulysse]

If its not trad,ice or alpine its not realy climbing.

I would be hard pressed to belive a person would get the same "high" sport climbing or bouldering than getting a crux pitch onsite 20 Pitches off the deck with no one else in sight but your partner.

I have to agree with Old School Mcgee(the single pitch stuff is only training for better things).



P.S. the other form of so called climbing are for the weak...LOL

I rember when sex was safe and rock climbing was dangerous

WERE IS THE ADVENTURE PEOPLE...CLIMB IT ALL

[dcentral]

Are tri-cams bigger then the blue one worth it? I've read anything bigger then that can creep a lot?

Why do people even care what others do. If you like trad good for you -- don't be a hater. Really isn't the best climber, the one who is having the most fun?

[martha]

Why do people even care what others do. If you like trad good for you -- don't be a hater. Really isn't the best climber, the one who is having the most fun?

That is what everyone's hero Alex Lowe said.

*sigh* so true. so true.

[Richard Eh!]

It's all about climbing... the lifestyle - interesting picture, eh?


http://www.traditionalmountaineering.or ... Beckey.htm

[The Teth]

On the cams verses nuts debate I say use both. But they do have a point, about concentrating on learning the passive gear to start with. They take a little more practice, and there are a lot of times when your cams just won’t fit, or it is actually easer to set a nut. For instance, the only cam I use on Ronald MacDonald (5.8 ) at Columbus Wall is for my directional at the bottom. But in situations where the cracks don’t flare much cams are very handy. And I still say the tri-cam is the bomb.

I just noticed that the Rock Empire set of 9 nuts is on sale for $39.95 US. The Canadian dollar is high right now. Not sure of shipping charges.

The Teth