pushing the limits

[Guest]

inspiring climbing

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[Fred]

again... this comes back to our previous discussion about grades. You should be able to onsight two letter grades below your best. So Yuji onsighting 14b is impressive yes but not that impressive since a ton of people in the world can do that. But yes, he's crazy old and a cool guy so 10 points for him. Am I thinking of the same guy??? LOL Personaly, I think Sharma's "Realization" send is the most impressive. Look at the amount of work her put into it. I think it becomes a point of reaching perfection through crazy training and repetition. I'm not familiar with Caldwell's send but again he climbs 5.15 so he should be able to do 14a while eating his granola bar (joking!).

[granite_grrl]

don't get me wrong, I can't fully understand the difference in difficulty between a 5.14a and a 5.15a, seeing as I'll probably never climb grades such as this. But I do understand the mental game between leading on gear and leading on bolts. I also understand how mentally wearying it can be to climb multipicth (though the longest routes I've done thus far has been a few 6 pitch routes).

That said, I find the feat of freeing a 26 pitch climb with eight 5.13 pitches and a crux pitch of 5.14a to be more impressive than Realization.

[mathieu]

there should be a fourth choice,

d) the guy nobody knows but just lead a climb, FA or [choose color] point, at his next level and is having his fifth stout to celebrate. now that's pushing it

[The Teth]

I assumed that the 15a was a sport climb. (Am I wrong on that?) Very impressive, but placing trad gear on a 14a just blows my mind. And to chain that with a bunch of other hard pitches on a multi pitch make me wonder how any human can sustain for that long.

What is the hardest pitch which has been sport climbed and what is the hardest which has been trad climbed? I do not read many magazines, so I am not up on the stats.

The Teth

[Guest]

personally i think yuji's onsight is the most impressive as it shows how strong, experienced, determined, focused, prepared, etc etc etc he is... and what IS possible on a first try... not that just anyone can climb 15a, but there are scores that with enough training and practice could climb it. an onsight at that level requires everything to be perfect.

if you haven't yet, watch that video.... it says enough.

and yah, realization is bolted. and there are other 15a sport routes out there , but as far as i know, realization is the only repeated one (anyone know of another?). There are also some unconfirmed 15b routes out there... akira, chilam bilam... but i figured i'd stick to confirmed grades

article on caldwell's send

i also had dai koyamada's V16 Wheel of Life as an option but as i clicked submit my finger twitched and clicked delete on that option.... hence only three options

not sure what the hardest trad line is... i know there are some 14as but dunno of any harder lines...

[Fred]

I'll say it again. I think 5.15a is MUCH harder than 5.14b. I don't climb at that level but I'm sure it has to be. I'm not downing Fuji's (forgot name) send or anything. But I am saying that sending 5.15a (sport or not) is much more of a "physical/technical" accomplishment. All things relative of course. Meaning... Fuji's onsight is crazy impressive relative to his accomplishments and age etc. It's one thing to be able to have a cool head for trad or mental focus/determination for onsighting but I think it's another thing to actualy be able to do it no matter how many times you try it. That's the limit.

Am I thinking of the same guy? Asian fella about 50 years old and climbs crazy hard trad.

[mathieu]

OK i'll confess I too read climbing magazines.

Actually Fred you are thinking of Hidetaka Suzuki.

In my opinion there has to be something said about commitment and mental difficulty, 15a sure is physically hard and strenuous but I find a 14a trad multipitch is pushing on a whole other level.

That being said, I suggest you guys/girls read the article in an old CLimbing or Rock and Ice about the first ascent of Sea of Vapors in Banff. Now that is pushing the limits, I think they climbed it in Brownpoint style (meaning they flowers there pants, its a joke). Consider also that the guy (forgot his name) was not a fully sponsored climber like sharman and caldwill who are climbing constantly. Pay anybody to climb climb climb and we will all be climbing 13+ sport in no time, I guarantee it. On the flip side I don't think most of us have the mental capacity to lead grade 6 ice or do any 5.9 A2 or trad lead 12's.

ohh and another thing, didn't sherma climb that sport route with the draws pre placed?

now off to Banff to get flowers faced.

[dcentral]

Where his draws placed all the way up? Or just to the crux where he keep falling off?

I remeber seeing the video but I don't ever remeber seeing him clip the bolts.

[Guest]

believe draws were preplaced on both climbs.

i'm not disputing difficulties here... yes, 15a is physically harder than 14b... and i agree sending 15a is more physically demanding, but i think onsighting 14b is more mentally and technically demanding.

and i don't think you have to climb at that level to understand the implications... compare onsighting 11b vs redpointing 12a...

[Fred]

aaahahahhahaha

Too FUnny!!!!!

I WAS thinking of Suzuki. thx Mat LOL. Can you imagine that old guy onsighting 14b? LOL. I knew he climbed strong in the day but sheesh!!! onsighting 14b at 50+ years of age is something else. LOL

[The Teth]

If it is talking about climbing the hardest possible climb by any style the 15a is impressive, but the V16 which was accidentally deleted from this poll probably has it beat. I will stick with my vote for the 14a trad on the 26 pitch climb which also included eight 5.13 pitches. Might not be the hardest grade, but probably the greatest feat.

I can’t really say how these compare to mixed ice climbing. Just do not have the experience with higher grade ice routes to be able to compare them. I can believe the brown pointing though. But then I am scared of heights, and as soon as I have managed to acclimatize to the height, the ice melts and the season is over. It takes me three days of climbing to get used to the height, and that seems to be the length of the season for ice in Nova Scotia. So it seems most of my ice climbing experience is having the crap scared out of me, with maybe one or two climbs at the end of each season where I actually enjoy myself. Damn irrational phobias!!!

The Teth

[mitchleblanc]

Although it ain't worth much.... just from having read Caldwell's article about that send of the huge multi-pitch.. man, it was amazing. It sounds to me like mentally and physically, it was on par with Realization..

As for "The wheel of life"... unsure what to tell you, I don't know anything about it. But that guy just about sends V13 and V14 in a few tries, I think, so I'm guessing it's hard! Isn't that in the Grampians? I think I'll need to go check it out.

Mitch "can lead about 5.11a onsight, and doesn't think that would make the polls" LeBlanc

[jeremy]

Speaking about sharma pre-placing draws, what about dude checking out the 14b route with binoculars? I was told when I started climbing that going out of your way to find beta on a route and preplacing draws was not considered onsight. Sure the limits are going up but the standard is going down. That said... all three are insanly difficult, but I'd have to say caldwells send is tops in my books

jeremy

[Guest]

I agree about the preplaced draws on the onsight.... first off, i'm assuming he didnt' place them himself. but yah, onsighting to me means clipping as you go as well. that does detract from a 'pure' onsight IMO...

but i don't really think binocs take anything away from it. as good as binocs are for seeing long distance, i've never found they lend them selves to seeing detail of small objects. besides, on any grade i'd ever be able to onsight i'm sure i'd be able to see the holds from the ground the holds he's dealing with are a tad bit smaller ....

and i'd have to say though i feel yuji's climb is more impressive (merely for the perfection required to onsight such a grade) i agree that caldwell is definately raising the bar... that many pitches in a row of that grade is just insane. and all the time with only 9 full fingers! must have a bearing on his jams, no?

[Shawn]

To play devil's advocate...while all are impressive, where is the commitment? If you are talking pure athleticism, they would be all near the top of the list. Yes, you need some mental ability to focus to onsight 14b or rp 15a but the mental ability to keep it together with your ass on the line is not even in the same ball park. If you blow it, you fall 10 or 15 feet and lower to try again. Tommy's 26p route at least has some commitment...although I'm certain it was possible for him to bail at any point on the route. If you want to talk about pushing the true limits of what climbing is about (and not just the athleticism) start listing accomplishments with consequenses (ie. Howse Peak, 60 hours pushes on Denali, Cerro Torre in 1953, etc.). Heck, even most of the harder ice climbs put up in the 70's with straight tools, flexible crampons, no leashes and imposible to place ice gear. So...while I'm not taking anything away from any of them listed, if you want to include the mental aspect of climbing in pushing the limits, your ass has to be on the line...then it is mental. It's a whole different ball game (which I won't ever play) when up is the only option and you don't know if up goes.

[Shawn]

Oh...guess I didn't really read the question. Thought it was asking the most impressive feat in climbing. Not just which was more impressive of the one's listed. Caldwell without a doubt.

[The Teth]

If you want mental aspect, try climbing with an irrational fear of heights. It makes every top-rope feel like a free solo. Your forebrain knows the anchor has triple redundancy, but you hindbrain doesn’t believe the rope is attached to anything. A lot of people would find that exiting. I wish I could give it away. Best I can do is acclimatise to the height by climbing often. Anyway, it certainly requires mental focus, but I do not think it pushes the limits of human achievement. By the same token I do not think that climbing with inferior equipment pushes the limit. Those old timers were certainly pushing the limit at the time, but the limit has been pushed much farther since then.

The Teth