The Dirt Thread

[Matt Peck]

Had a pretty low grade day out at Welsford yesterday. I found that a number of routes that I really enjoyed climbing my first year out were now covered in lichen! I know exfoliated is prone to this kind of growth, but some of the quality routes on Pyramid wall were similarly overgrown! I stopped to clean a couple of the better holds, but these routes are either going to need a serious brushdown, or more traffic! Did the closedown season really have this much effect? Was this year more prone to growth than others? Has it been a couple of years since cleaning was done on a grand scale? Seriously, im puzzled. I noticed similar posts earlier on this season, do people maybe want to post routes that they have noticed that have become pretty dirty?

Pass the Moonshine
Storm warning
Mental Hygene (the one that's not on the face)

[Shawn B]

Ah yes...Welsford is getting old. Routes are getting overgrown, bolts old and rusty, trees dying and trails eroding. I've noticed a bigger change this year than in years past. Not sure if growth and erosion is due to abnormal amount of rain this spring. Tree on top of Sticky Fingers should be dead by next spring Looking pretty rotten and roots are eroded around base of it. Bolt is getting a bit rusty too as are bolts on Joint Venture.

[Andrew]

Shawn,

I have a question about 'rusty bolts'. I know all the bolts we use now are Stainless Steel. The bolts that I see from time to time in Welsford that have been oxidized, they must have been regular steel. Is this the case, or does even SS get oxidized after awhile? I would think that they were not stainless bolts as I'm pretty sure SS doesn't go rusty like that, even in 25yrs.

What's the deal?

Andrew

Ah yes...Welsford is getting old. Routes are getting overgrown, bolts old and rusty, trees dying and trails eroding. I've noticed a bigger change this year than in years past. Not sure if growth and erosion is due to abnormal amount of rain this spring. Tree on top of Sticky Fingers should be dead by next spring Looking pretty rotten and roots are eroded around base of it. Bolt is getting a bit rusty too as are bolts on Joint Venture.

[Fred]

I think the old bolts used to be galvanized. The new bolts are all stainless steel but if I'm not mistaken they too can oxidize over time but much greater time.

As for Pass the Moonshine. The moss on the slab has been creeping up year after year. It is only getting noticed now because it's actually making the climbing more difficult. The last two seasons have been very wet and growth has flourished. Perhaps just carrying a wire brush now and then and scrubbing a little here and there will keep the climbs clean.

As far as traffic in Welsford goes, I've definitely seen a large decrease in climbers the last two years. Oddly enough however the UNB gym is booming and there are new kean climbers by the minute. Perhaps they just need to be pointed to the crag. Or perhaps plastic is their choice. Sounds like a waste if you ask me. hmm?

[martha]

I will be the last to complain about a lack of traffic to Welsford. After a summer of climbing in crowed places I can't wait to get back to Welsford this weekend. I love that place.

the slab on PTM is very mossy and definately needs a scrub. it would only take a few minutes.

Shawn, I haven't been up sticky fingers this year. Should it have an anchor or is there another tree there handy?

After spending some time with a forestry friend of ours, I have relized that a lot of the dead/dying trees out there are actually infested with Ants.
Do you know if this is the case on SF?

Oh, as a side note, I hope no one is still slinging the tree on IAWOL. It is so very very dead. all it needs is a good Yank to come out, and it isn't needed as gear anyways since the climb is nothing but big flake!

[PaulB]

I think the old bolts used to be galvanized. The new bolts are all stainless steel but if I'm not mistaken they too can oxidize over time but much greater time.

A problem that I observed in Welsford years ago was that many SS bolts were matched with non-SS nuts and/or washers. Having two different types of metal in contact with each other (and under stress) leads to galvanic corrosion once they get wet. This was easy to spot, as soon after they were installed, the nuts/washers would be corroded but the bolts themselves would still be shiny. I'm not sure how much this would effect the bolt's effective life span, but it probably shortens it by some amount.

As far as traffic in Welsford goes, I've definitely seen a large decrease in climbers the last two years. Oddly enough however the UNB gym is booming and there are new kean climbers by the minute. Perhaps they just need to be pointed to the crag. Or perhaps plastic is their choice.

This is happening everywhere. You meet all kinds of self described "climbers" in Vancouver who've never been to Squamish. Indoor climbing has definitely become a sport unto itself.

[Fred]

This is happening everywhere. You meet all kinds of self described "climbers" in Vancouver who've never been to Squamish. Indoor climbing has definitely become a sport unto itself.

sad but true. If only they knew that indoor walls were developed as training grounds for the real thing.

[PaulB]

I have a question about 'rusty bolts'. I know all the bolts we use now are Stainless Steel. The bolts that I see from time to time in Welsford that have been oxidized, they must have been regular steel. Is this the case, or does even SS get oxidized after awhile? I would think that they were not stainless bolts as I'm pretty sure SS doesn't go rusty like that, even in 25yrs.

While some of the bolts in Welsford may have been galvanized carbon steel, I suspect that most are SS. All metals oxidize, SS just does it slower than carbon steel under ideal conditions. Climbing bolts have a pretty tough life as they are exposed to the elements over the years. Under the right conditions, even SS bolts can get rusty.

[Andrew]

All good things to know re: Rusty Bolts, Galv/Carbon, SS, mixed.

Climb on

[martha]

for the record...a rusty bolt isn't necessarily unsafe. when it is rusted to the point of breaking...well yes....

I think that welsford is fine. all of the bolts are less than 30 years old. Go to the Gunks or Red Rocks where there are pitons that are 50 years old and they are the only pro you have in 40 ft. and let me tell you ...they ARE rusted.

[Matt Peck]

Yeah, but I wouldn't say no to even some of the manky routes being kept clean due to traffic. The crowds at the gunks are a bit much, but I don't see that happening in welsford, so as far as Im concerned, bring on the climbers.

[PaulB]

for the record...a rusty bolt isn't necessarily unsafe. when it is rusted to the point of breaking...well yes....

It took me a while to find it last night, but there is some interesting reading on Will Gadd's site about old bolts & hangers.