wonderful night at Welsford

[Chris]

I just got back from Hiking at Cochrane Lane (my partner in crime was not up for climbing rocks). What a great night! The breeze kept the bugs at a minimum and it was easily 10 degrees warmer than it was in stinktown!

[Andrew]

Hey Chris.

yeah it was a nice evening out. Courtney and I went up to Border Wall to climb a couple 5.4/5.6s but by the time we got the day-pass from DND (25min detour) and then hiked up... we didn't have much daylight left and so just enjoyed the hike and explored around a bit.

Maybe next time.

I heard Shawn and possibly Joe up on Minkey, sounded like they wer having some fun.

[Fred]

by the time we got the day-pass from DND (25min detour) and then hiked up...

quit your complaining and consider yourself lucky we have access at all. Some of us are very greatfull regardless of the minor inconvenience. It's realy not a big deal. Plan ahead and leave 25 minutes earlier. You do realize that 95% of all climbing areas around the world and especially in North America require permits and check-in points. Tour the globe a little and you'll realize how lucky we really are.

[dcentral]

That was a bit harsh.

[Fred]

That was a bit harsh.

perhaps a bit yes. Excuse me. Am I the only one who interpreted Andrew's post as a hidden/discreet complaint? I guess you have to know him a little.

It's kinda like if you asked me for a drive and I said:

"sure but I'll have to go wwaaayy overr the hillll and then baaacckkkk to Queen street and uppppp again one block but that's cool cause I realy don't mind"

Andrew,

my appologizes if I misread what you were trying to say. As far as climbing time goes, it basically takes someone from SJ 45min now to get to Welsford which is the same as us from Freddy. We were down to Welsford last week after 5pm quittin time and got 4 full pitches of climbing in. Twenty minutes realy is not a big detour in my opinion and should not have any impact on your climbing time. Even if we had tagged an extra 25min on our driving time we still would have done minimum 3 pitches.

Again, sorry for barking at you. I just wish people would be more appreciative sometimes.

peace out

[mitchleblanc]

I think that (and this is in keeping with your response to me earlier, Fred, for example) you are taking people's "un-appreciativeness" too personally. I know that complaining for the sake of complaining isn't beneficial, but why is everyone so damned *angry* at anyone who questions the manner in which the solution to the Welsford access issue was found, or even more importantly the solution itself!? I think it's perfectly reasonable (in fact, it's obvious) that *anyone* but people at UNB R&I don't think it's an ideal solution. It was convenient, true. (Read Martha's post bitching about the "effort" involved in setting up a NB based climbing organization.. laughable, since she is part of both UNB and climbNS) .. so what gives? Stop flowering on everyone who doesn't agree with you.

You guys preach about "it's not a big inconvenience" yet in my opinion (and in many other people's opinion) driving for a half an hour IS an inconvenience.. Perhaps this was the best solution... but perhaps it wasn't!! I don't think you should be so critical. It's like the Bush administration telling everyone they're not patriotic because they didn't vote pro-war. It's the right to an opinion, and the right to question.

"Why do you hate freedom?"

[Fred]

Mitch, you're right... I'm sorry.

[mitchleblanc]

lol. Now I don't know if you're just being sarcastic at me or not

No need to be sorry! Love you brother!

[martha]

Mitch,

I know that all that I am getting at is that we are lucky to be able to climb in Welsford at all. End of story. The current solution is the best one that could have been come to. And frankly I think it is a great one. It is a minor inconvienience for some, but far less of an inconvienience than having to drive to Nova Scotia or Maine to be able to climb at all.

Many other options were explored and this is the one that the Base could best come to. It is the same for EVERY person who wants to use ANY Gagetown land for hunting, fishing, ATVing, hiking or otherwise. A day pass must be gotten. It is NOT our land and the Base has every right to want to know where every person is located on their land.

We always were supposed to be getting a day pass but just didn't know it. Those are the rules, and if we want to play, we follow them.



Cara

[Chris]

I had this same conversation tonight. A fellow climber complained about driving to Petersville to sign in. I will take that extra 15 minutes rather than have no climbing at all.

Seriously, the phrase "Shut up and Climb" is going to be my next tat!!!

Anyways, the forcast is sunny right thru till sunday! WOOT!

CHris!

[mitchleblanc]

Seriously, the phrase "Shut up and Climb" is going to be my next tat!!!

That's an awesome idea! I thought of getting that too actually.. seriously. The only reason I didn't is because I'm scared of needles! Ouch!

[Andrew]

Fred,

Yes. I was complaining. On the other hand, YES I am very thankfull that we were able to get our access back. On a saturday or sunday morning, going to Petersville is NOT an issue. During the week, it is. I went up with my girlfriend, hoping to get one climb in, but we ran out of time. We don't hike fast like you and Cara. I don't weight lift or any of that stuff, so I'm not super-fit and especially the first few times out in the season, it's a long hike. The partners I go with are often new and don't know what they're doing, so it takes extra time there, too. That's why we ran outta time and the extra drive which i timed it, took 30 extra minutes including the form filling out thing at the base post.

Should also note that you guys don't have to backtrack so its not inconvenient at ALL for those in freddy town.

Mitch --- I agree with you there... there are better ways to do things, but if you/me/others aren't willing to do much or can't to change it, then we're stuck with what others have been able to do for us. I still think the UNB people did very well. I think soon we need to re-do the agreement with the base, though. I should be able to just call them and tell them them im going to Area 40 to climb from this time to that time with car with plate #.


Cya.

[Fred]

should also note that you guys don't have to backtrack so its not inconvenient at ALL for those in freddy town

Since it takes 20min from SJ to Welsford
+ 25min (tops) to go to Petersville and back, then we are in the same boat since it takes 45min to go from Frederiction to Welsford. Inconvenient is hardly the word I would use to have the priviledge to climb in Welsford which is an easy 45min away.

As far as fitness goes... I duno what to tell ya man. It takes stamina to climb mountains?

There are other cliffs in the SJ area that you can visit on week nights if time is a factor. Rockwood Park has a cliff! There is also Gondola Point and Hampton Marsh. Perhaps these would be more suited for quick afterwork visits. You can park right next to the climbing so you wouldn't have to hike at all.

Peace dude!
Hope to see you climbing soon.

[martha]

You know what I think Andrew?

Quit your whinning. seriously. Yes, the military guys would tell you the same thing. You don't see others complaining that have been climbing longer than you've even understood the word do you? No, because they know how precious access is.

And by the way, I don't lift weights. I just have bigger biceps than you from climbing.

You now have to drive the same amount of time that WE ALWAYS HAVE. so the fact that you can't get more than one climb in isn't my problem, or anyone elses. it is yours. so climb faster, hike faster, or just shut up. We leave fredericton at 5pm and hike out in the dark by headlamp and can do 4 pitches no problem. Yes, Fred and I are faster than others, but I've been up there with other people and still managed 3.

If you have problems with what was done, or have input on how to do it better, then call John and tell him. Or talk to him in Welsford.

Revisiting the issue soon is not an option. I'm sorry. it was difficult to come to the conclusion that has been arrived at and it isn't just about getting a day pass. There is a lot of 'behind the scenes' work that John has to do on a monthly basis to maintain this agreement including meetings and other paperwork. John is in constant contact with them to ensure that nothing gets screwed up.

John and others thought of everything possible. Brainstorming was key. He tried to get year passes, month passes, and the ability to phone in. He tried hard to come to the easiest solution possible for all climbers in NB. This is the best they would do. And I think it is a great solution.

I've never heard you complain about Kamouraska and having to sign in and pay 6$ every day you climb. Why? because that is just how it has been since you started climbing there. you know what? I remember when I didn't have to pay to climb there, but hey, small sacrifice to be able to use the cliffs, so i won't say a word of complaint. After a few months Andrew, you'll be so used to signing in that you'll have forgotten that it was ever different.

I don't know how many times I have to say that it isn't a problem. It is a great solution and a better one than not being able to go at all.

SUCK IT UP.


Cara

[martha]

Sorry to sound like such a B*tch, but it really bothers me how some people (not you in particular Andrew, you know I like you) can whine and complain and not even once step up to help out.

John lost nearly 4 weeks of work on his Masters to ensure that this would happen for us, and I am SO VERY GRATEFUL. I know I couldn't have done a better job. I don't think anyone could have.

Like Chris said!!!! SHUT UP AND CLIMB!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fred]

I'm scared to go home tonight

sheesh.. ur a bit emotional today eh?!