DIGITAL CAMERA

[climberwannabe]

I'm taking two Yamnuska sessions in July that are going to last approx 10 days total. I want to buy a digital camera that is going to take really nice pics. I was wondering if anyone knows much about this? In the mountains will it be better to have a camera with a higher pixel count, or a higher zoom? Is 6X zoom enough, or would 10X be better? How good is 4.0 Mpixel count?

[mitchleblanc]

Fred is the camera expert around these parts (or one of them) but let me try...

4 mp is fine for printing your pics on 4x6.. should be no problem. Maybe even 6x8 or so. If you're going to be putting them online, it barely matters what amount of megapixels you have..

So I would say more important to concentrate on zoom and quality. I like the cannon cameras myself, they seem to really have good color. The cameras are fast pretty nice menus too. I think they are my recommendation.

My bro has a cannon 3.2mp with a huge 10x optical zoom, and he gets some really nice photos. If you're rope climbing, you probably want a big zoom.. if you're bouldering, I think probably you want a big nice wide lense.

That being said.. read www.dpreview.com for excellent info on nearly all cameras.

[lukelovesclimbin]

I have a cannon, digital SLR, (rebel) and it's crazy. i agree with mitch, the cannon cameras are where it's at, i also have a Fujifilm S602Z finepix and it's really good for zooms and the color is crAzy.
Hope this hefps
Climb on
Luke

[dcentral]

I've got a Nikon 4500. It's awsome. It has a bitchen swivel head that lets you change the angle of the lens so you can shot over crowds etc and still see the display. The biggest con is that all the features can only be accessed by using the display screen. You have full manual control with it and it also allows for other lens attachements.

With 4.0 meg pixels I've printed up to 8x10 no problems or loss in quality. I haven't printed larger but that's because I havn't tried.

I know Canon's are good but there's some really nice Nikon camera's out there right now too. For what I paid for mine two years ago you can get alot better now.

I second Dpreview it lets you compare every camera to each other.

The SLR's are nice but they can take up a lot of space. That may be an issue it may not just depens on what you are doing. If you just want something to stick in your pocket slr's will not be what you want.

just make sure the zoom is optical zoom and not digital zoom. Cause digital zone is the same thing as if you blew up the picture in photoshop. It does not help the quality. If they start trying to sell you on Digital zoom just tell them to be quite.

Biggest thing is the lens. Just get a camera with a good lens. Like the Canon's or the Nikons. The really cheap ones might have the same features but if the lens blows what's the point.

[Fred]

Fred is the camera expert around these parts (or one of them) but let me try...

well thx mitch but I don't think I'm an experty by any means at all. The only advice I would give you is to strongly consider buying a used 35mm film camera instead of a point and shoot digi. In my opinion there is no digital camera (aside from $2000 digital SLR) out there capable of taking a photo that's anywhere near as good as a 35mm. I could bore you with reasons why but I suspect 0's and 1's have already taken over. I don't know much about digital cameras unfortunatly so I can't realy help you out. The one thing I'd like to point out is that the higher your MEga Pix means squat if the lens, light meter and digital sensor are useless.

cheers!

[mathieu]

For mountain photography, zoom doesn't really matter, a 6X would be more than enought. Think about it, you have this nice panorama in front of you, zooming in on a climber or one mountain is not what u want to do.

I would say 4.0 megagiggles is ideal, you can blow up your pics and still have nice color saturation and keep the contrast (I just made that part up but the pictures do look good). I have a dinky little Canon 2.0 megagiggles and i've blown up a picture to a 8X10 and it turned out nicely but that is mostly due to the picture having very little color variation (mostly white and black, see X-img for said picture).

Canon seem to have nice lens and are quite user friendly. You also want to consider battery life. I don't think those Yamnuska courses are 10 days out in the bush but if you are going to the bugaboo's and staying there for 5 days you can't count on having a power source to charge up your fancy little battery pack. I recommend getting a camera which takes double A's or tripple A's. Not using the display to frame your pictures will make your batteries last longer but remember that the viewfinder and the size of the picture are not exactly the same. On my camera I have an extra 5 to 10% around all sides when I compare the viewfinder and the actual digital image.

I second what DCentral says, go for optical zoom, digital zoom is garbage.

Oh one last word of advice, the camera won't take good pictures, its all about knowing how to use it. Make sure to experiment lots and don't make the mistake a friend of mine (who shall remain nameless) did last year. We did 4 days of awesome climbing in the bugaboo's and only on the fourth day he noticed that camera was on a weird setting where it made everything look blue, probably a setting to take indoor pictures or something like that. Needless to say the pictures taken on a nice sunny day on a glacier looked quite dull. What I started doing is bracketing my pictures, I have a setting on my camera that allows me to over or under 'expose' the shot so I take one at -1 one at 0 and one at +1 (I vary this depending if the shot obviously needs to be under or over exposed).

Which Yamnuska courses are you taking?

[lukelovesclimbin]

IMO, if i was you, go to your local camera shop, and ask them, if the know what they are talking about then you should have no problem buying the right camera.
Climb on
Luke

[dcentral]

If you are going to do what luke says go to Atlantic Photo Supply on Spring garden. They seem more willing to make deals if you talk to them about it. Carsand Mosher isn't as friendly I find. Don't buy at future shop.

Buying a nice 35 mm slr might be nice, but if you arn't going to use all the features like light metering etc what's the point in buying one -- Regradless if its digital or film.

If you want to just capture memories and maybe print a few pictures and aren't looking to be on the cover of some magazine then a point and shoot might be the way to go.

Anyways. I think the biggest thing is do your home work, and really try and decide on what you want to do and what you want are really going to use it for. Dprview has lots of user feedback too on all the cameras. Take the time to go through all those.

[mike]

I've got a second digital camera that you can have for $300.

Olympus D40- it's a few years old but it takes quality shots.

pros: small, takes regular AA batteries, 4mpix, 128M memory card.

cons: memory card format is the really skinny square ones- don't know how available card readers and extra cards are...

I would still be using it but it got stolen so I bought a new one. 17 months after it got stolen and 2 months after I bought my new one- it was returned to me. Such is life.

If you want it... I'll be home around the 2nd of July. I'm in Alsaka right now.

Mike

[mitchleblanc]

I've got a Nikon 4500. It's awsome. It has a bitchen swivel head that lets you change the angle of the lens so you can shot over crowds etc and still see the display. The biggest con is that all the features can only be accessed by using the display screen.

Before you rush out and buy this camera... I owned it, and though the swivel head IS a bitchin' feature (it does rock) the camera, in my opinion, sucked big time. The print quality of the photos is fine (it's 4 mp) but frankly, the colors were so off, the hazy blue distortion (at bright/dark edges) was so obvious, skin tones were so horribly.. digital (you know what I mean) .. Plus the menu was mind-numbingly bad. That alone was reason me for to stay away from Nikon entirely. I hated it. It actually got lost (did you happen to find mine, dcentral?) and aside from losing a few bouldering pics, I was happy to see it go, nearly. It's reviewed on dpreview.com (and does get a good recomendation) but I say you'd be happier with a similar priced cannon, by far.

Highly un-recommended! (only in my hurtin' opinion).. don't pay for the swivel feature it's cool but not worth the quality being lesser in the lens etc, for the same price.

[lukelovesclimbin]

W.E you do dude, don't buy from future shop, staples, radio shack. buy from a camera store, they will have all you answers. and remember to do as mitch said, do your homework.
Climb on
Luke

[Andrew]

I have a rather simple digital camera compared to some of the models you guys are talking about, but mine is a Canon A75 - 3.2MP 3.0x Optical / 10.0xDigital Zoom. It takes compact flash memory.

My review is that it's been excellent for what I do (point and shoot).

The colours are excellent, ease of use and it takes 4 AA batteries which last a long time.

So I give my vote to Canon and just find the right model with the features you want. I would suggest getting at least a 4mpixel model with 10x zoom and maybe even a 5mpixel depending on the size prints.

[Fred]

Buying a nice 35 mm slr might be nice, but if you arn't going to use all the features like light metering etc what's the point in buying one -- Regradless if its digital or film.

If you want to just capture memories and maybe print a few pictures and aren't looking to be on the cover of some magazine then a point and shoot might be the way to go.

this is true but a used 35mm auto SLR is as easy to use as a digital camera and will take way better photos any day in my opinion. Plus you won't have to worry about battery power when you're in the bush. And there are so many things you can't do with simple point and shoots such as star trails etc. If you want a small pocket camera then consider the Ricoh GR1V. This is the camera of choice for professional climbing and mountaineering photographers. Go to http://www.photo.net and ask what camera to buy for mountain photography and you'll be surprised how many people throw this little camera at you. It looks like a disposable camera but for some reason it's the mother of pocket cameras.

Like Mat said. Learn photo basics and your camera's functions and that alone will improve your photo quality.

good luck

[martha]

I've got the Nikon 3200 digi camera and I love it. the photos print well, it takes TONS of video and the batteries last forever. 3.2 megapixels, 3x zoom, 4x digital zoom.

It is easy and a fun compact camera, but i'm just a 'point and shooter', not a pro like Mitch and Fred.


Cara

[dcentral]

I've never had any problems with skin colour on the 4500. The menu's can be tricky but you can also preprogram settings so you don't always have to be running into the menu.

If I was buying one today I porbably wouldn't buy this same camera. It would probably be something a little different. Just because the cameras in the same price range have changed.

I would buy Nikon though, I really do like their lenses.

[Fred]

Although Nikon lenses are the best in the world I don't know if that applies to point and shoot cameras. I thought I read a while back that their point and shoot lenses were manufactured by others. I could be mistaking though.

[martha]

the lense on mine is nikkor. that is the Nikon brand isn't it?

[PaulB]

...if you are going to the bugaboo's and staying there for 5 days you can't count on having a power source to charge up your fancy little battery pack.

You can if you stay in the Kain Hut!

Others are providing good info on the technical side of things, so I'll comment on some more practical considerations:

...I recommend getting a camera which takes double A's or tripple A's.

I second this. Proprietary rechargeables are good for keeping the cameras small, but you'll have to buy at least one spare (they are usually expensive). Ideally, the batteries for your camera would be the same size as those for your other electronic gadgets (headlamp, GPS, avalanche beacon, VHF radio, MP3 player) so you don't have to carry multiple sizes of spares. I'd recommend NiMH rechargeables for regular use, and for longer trips (especially in the winter) non rechargeable lithiums are a good choice to supplement the rechargeables.

Consider whether or not the major controls (lens cover, power, zoom, shutter release) of a camera can be operated with one hand. Good for taking shots while belaying or while you're climbing and can't (or would rather not) free up both hands.

Think about the overall shape of the camera. I bought a Canon Powershot A75, primarily because it had a nice positive "grip" (and used AA batteries) as opposed to something like the Olympus Stylus models which have smooth egg like bodies. If you're wearing gloves, the smooth bodied cameras can be slippery to hold on to.

For memory, get at least a 512MB card, 1GB if you can afford it. This will be more than enough for most trips (even if you shoot short videos), and because memory cards are so small and fiddly, having one that stays in your camera is better than having two or three small capacity ones that might get lost.

For a camera to be used, it has to be accessible, not buried in your pack. Get a good padded and weather resistant case (I'd recommend LowePro) so that you can attach it to your pack or harness, or sling it over your shoulder.

[Fred]

don't listen to these guys! go for 35mm film man! LOL seriously!

[lukelovesclimbin]

Ferd, is your last name flintstone?? lol i'm just kidding, fred digital SLR is where it's at man.
Climb on
Luke
P.S Yaaa-baa-daaab-a-doo

[Fred]

I know it sounds a bit prehistoric but the truth is unless you can afford an expensive digital SLR then the quality of film wins hands down over any point and shoot digi. The 35mm still wins over digital SLR in quality but the convenience of digi makes up for it. The problem is... It's a fine line right now between what's best "digital SLR" or "35mm SLR". At this point I'd say 35mm based on cost. I'd wait just two or more years and then digital SLR will have surpassed 35mm. It's kinda like DVD players. They were super expensive when they first came out but if you just waited 2 years then you probably got a 5 disc changer with MPEG options and beyond for a lesser price. Digital SLR's are new to the market and they are improving by the minute. I'd say unless you can afford it right now just be a little patient and you'll get a much better bargain in a couple of years. In the meantime keep shoosting quality photos with the reliability and quality of 35mm

You can get a used Nikon F80 right now on Henrys.com for $300. That is the top of the line (not pro) Nikon camera at the moment. It's also the same camera I use and have had great results compared to my digital camera and Cara's camera as well. And also better than any other digital camera I've seen. Set that puppy on auto and you are guaranteed much better photos than any point and shoot you'll buy.

Fred
sponsored by Nikon 35mm team

[lukelovesclimbin]

fred, i agree with you, i didn't think to mention that digital SLR is where it is going. it's just like VOIP PDA and pocket PC's compair to cell phones. but yes for the price 35mm SLR is the best but i'm all about the convenience.
Climb on
Luke

[dcentral]

If you are on a course, do you really want to be bothered with having to change film?

There's also the option of getting cameras that take battery packs but will also take regular batteries too.

Those with camera's that take regular batteries how long do the batteries last once you start using the flash?

I used one a few years ago, that as soon as you started using the flash, It only had about 5 shots with the flash after that. Only when we switched to rechargables did it last a little longer

[Fred]

If you are on a course, do you really want to be bothered with having to change film?

There's also the option of getting cameras that take battery packs but will also take regular batteries too.

Those with camera's that take regular batteries how long do the batteries last once you start using the flash?

I used one a few years ago, that as soon as you started using the flash, It only had about 5 shots with the flash after that. Only when we switched to rechargables did it last a little longer

serisoulsy though it only takes about 20 seconds to change a roll of film but I know what you mean.

yes flash will suck the life out of battery power but if you are shooting day shots you can put tons of rolls of film through a 35mm with one battery

[lukelovesclimbin]

Both of you have good points, but dude, i'd just do your homeowrk on the camera and then after forming your opinion look at other peoples.
Luke

[climberwannabe]

Wow, thats lots of info thanks guys. I do agree Fred, about 35 mm... it seems so much better as far as quality. Plus its got that photographer 'romance' to handiling/adjusting the lens thing going on. I would love to buy one, and really its probably better... seeing how I dont even have a computer. BUT I am looking for a quick and simple solution now... something I dont have to screw around with too much, but takes nice photos. I'll let ya'all know how I make out.

Oh, and I am taking the intro to mountaineering and intro to alpine ice, back to back.

Steve

[climberwannabe]

Whats the Fuji FinePix S20Pro 6.2MP Digital Camera like???

[lukelovesclimbin]

Good camera, if you have the coin.
great choice. IMO
Climb on
Luke

[Fred]

These days though you don't really need a computer to have a digital camera. You can simply take your memory card to your local Superstore and get a CD burned and get prints at the Kodak self service station. for those of you who haven't tried this yet you are definitely missing out. It's quite easy to use and super affordable. You can get prints within the hour.

I totaly understand if you decide to go digital. Everyone is these days cause it's so convenient. I just wanted to put 35mm out there as an alternative since it's quite cheap and much better quality. As far as learning how to use it... It's not difficult at all with auto SLR's. They are as simple if not simpler to use than point and shoot digital cameras.

Fuji cameras have great reviews. I'm sure it will be a great camera. Like Mat said... Learning how ot use it will make more difference than the camera itself.

Cheers!

[dcentral]

I would like to at some point get a 35 mm. But I don't really want to bother paying for having film developed.

I'd rather put the money I have into my better photos.

I havn't looked into them that much but there are printers now that you can just plug your camera directly into.

I know people who have fuji camera's and like them a lot.