Route cleaning/Trail maintenance day 2013

[Dom]

Hey guys,
As we do every year now, we should set a date for Route cleaning/Trail maintenance day. How does the 2nd of November sound for everyone?
Last year was a success with over 10 climbers that helped and revamped the trail up to the sign-in box.

Anyone that uses any crag should participate. Not only is it a fun time with a crew but it is a rewarding feeling to be giving back to a place that offers so much in return.

I will even be making posters for it and putting them at the UNB Rock & Ice wall...the more people that help the better.

Anyways, what do you think we should tackle this year? Lower Dawn erosion problem? Focus on cleaning routes?

[Adam]

good call Dom!

and remember, if you go climbing that day don't get your panties in a twist when we stop you on your approach and make you do some work!

perhaps this year we should try to deal with the Dawn Wall erosion? there are plenty of downed trees that we could haul up there (with the right equipment) to build a retaining wall.... or perhaps we should just let it continue to erode and just clear as much debris from the trail as possible.

any other contenders for work? i remember the last uphill stretch at sunnyside being suggested in past years.

[Greg]

Has the base been contacted about this and given their approval for the work to be done?

[Shawn B]

Greg does bring up a good point in that the base should be consulted and ask if it is ok if we do trail maintenance/erosion control. The normal trimming of limbs and clearing deadfall is one thing but a major reno should be approved.

[theriault]

I agree, Base should be notified, also as a form of courtesy, we should invite them, on the day of, for them to supervise (come see) what we are doing.

Luc and I will be restoring the old trail that goes from the first bridge to exfoliated.... a few of us have been using this trail in the past year and realised its a faster way to get to Exfoliated, L-Shaped, Joe's and everything passed that.

[Adam]

I agree, Base should be notified, also as a form of courtesy, we should invite them, on the day of, for them to supervise (come see) what we are doing.

Luc and I will be restoring the old trail that goes from the first bridge to exfoliated.... a few of us have been using this trail in the past year and realised its a faster way to get to Exfoliated, L-Shaped, Joe's and everything passed that.

if this is done i think the signin box should be moved down to the stream since people using the 'lower' trail would be bypassing it.

[theriault]

Dom and I where actually discussing that move on saturday.... there's a perfect spot right after the bridge!

[Stacey]

Sounds like a great idea, and a short cut is always welcomed

[Adam]

yeah and i always enjoyed that trail. gets my vote.

[F Côté]

I never even knew about that trail. where is it exactly? I like shortcuts It sounds like a good project to work on.
I was also thinking that some of the wooden signs with the crags' names could be re-done. For example the exfoliated one cracked in half laying on the ground. I have no idea how to make that kind of sign though ...

[Adam]

so this is approaching quickly. what's the plan?

[Shawn B]

I can probably get the same tools as last year....

You aren't going to get my help if you call me a tool again. My project will be de-furring Simpson Wall. I plan to thoroughly garden the quickly overgrowing wall. Not sure if I will be participating on the scheduled day or not. If time permits I'll also scrub Springfield. Trundling from the top and some removal of loose rock on Dooh will probably be needed so I'll rope off the trail below the wall. I will try to do it on maintenance day but my schedule may not allow. Any extra bodies interested to facilitate rope work and/or split the wall in two is welcomed. Experience in and enjoyment in extreme gardening especially welcome...ahem...Greg Hughes.

[sam]

hey shawn; I'd be more inclined to clean walls than I would to work on the trails, so myself and Austin C will likely help out wherever you want us that needs scrubbing

[Shawn B]

Sounds good Sam. Simpson is split in two by the gully so a couple of teams tackling the wall would make half the work for each and prob allow for gardening, trundling, and scrubbing in the one day. Homer (prob the nicest route on the wall once clean) needs some tlc too. Will try to make it on the 2nd but I'll let you know if that is not possible. Cheers.

[austinconrad]

I work most Saturdays and rarely get a chance to take a Saturday as a vacation day. I was lucky enough to get this Saturday off for the comp so the likelihood of two in a row is pretty much zero. I would however be available to go Sunday and would be more than willing to scrub some routes on Simpson wall. I've been meaning to scrub a few routes on Simpson for awhile now. I doubt Sam is willing to go two days though

[Adam]

any other walls that obviously need some attention? probably don't need everyone on simpson wall. just a thought

any ideas for lower dawn wall? i think the return on investment for doing anything to that erosion issue is going to be low, but maybe there are other options?

[F Côté]

If people are thinking of doing some route cleaning I noticed most of the routes at exfoliated could use a good scrub. Routes I have noticed to be mossy include: Farewell to arms (top of the route), the juggler, Sleeping Beauty, Chocolate Éclair, and I didn'T take a close look at the others.
I won't be there route cleaning day because I work, but if I get the chance I was hoping to make it to exfoliated to clean some of the routes before the end of the season.
Anyways, just throwing suggestions for those who are planning on scrubbing.

[*Chris*]

Cheekbone could use a light scrub.

[Dom]

i think the return on investment for doing anything to that erosion issue is going to be low,

Huh? Care to elaborate?

I don't know how we could attack this one but I'm sure it would not be that complex. Maybe build wooden stairs akin to the ones below the sign-in box with the wood we stashed last year.

[Adam]

i think the return on investment for doing anything to that erosion issue is going to be low,

Huh? Care to elaborate?

I don't know how we could attack this one but I'm sure it would not be that complex. Maybe build wooden stairs akin to the ones below the sign-in box with the wood we stashed last year.

i think it's just gonna be hard to stop the erosion there b/c it's on top of a granite slab. i think anything built out of soil will just wash away, and we can't pound rebar into the ground there so pretty much needs to be bolted into the rock. if we're to make steps i'd say not like by the sign in box but rather perhaps actual wooden steps set into a log or something - something above the rock. but that's kinda overkill, so i think just a good rope to hold on to is occam's razor on this one.

[Dom]

Gotcha. I guess we'll see what people want to do the day of and how many volunteers show up.

If people focus on cleaning routes, I'll be cleaning Currie Recollection at Minkey and Prairie Wolf at UT.

[theriault]

If people focus on cleaning routes, .

Its awesome that lots of people are showing interest in cleaning routes.... But (this is just my opinion)scrubbing routes is easy to do alone at anytime, I know a lot of us are already doing it on a regular basis. Since we are doing an event out of this, in my mind it would be best to concentrate our effort on bigger projects that require more bodies, since we will have this man power that day (the only day a year)... aka reviving the old trail down low, the lower dawn erosion project, the wood bridges close to waterfall wall....

[Shawn B]

I guess I don't understand why we need to create another trail when there is already an existing one. Why did we do the work we did last year if there is a shorter/better trail? This is why I felt my time better spent cleaning Simpson Wall up...it is going to be a pretty big project...not just a little lichen cleaning with a wire brush. Just my opinion.

[Adam]

I guess I don't understand why we need to create another trail when there is already an existing one. Why did we do the work we did last year if there is a shorter/better trail? This is why I felt my time better spent cleaning Simpson Wall up...it is going to be a pretty big project...not just a little lichen cleaning with a wire brush. Just my opinion.

the lower trail is not shorter for most areas, but if you're going to exfoliated it would be a shorter path (and then arguably joe's/UT, but it would be close i think). it definitely isn't a necessary trail, but i definitely don't mind it existing. we did the work last year b/c most people are still going to use the main trail and it was in need of work.

[theriault]

Shawn, sorry i meant to mentionned that cleaning simpson aka the whole wall and not just a route is a great idea and needs to be done! my concerned was more towards single routes here and there.... as for the new trail, its a shortcut to L-Shape and everythings to its climbers right, the original trail will still be used and it will take some traffic off of it.

to simplify my other msg, i just think we should use the day/man power for task that can't be done by a single person....

[cory]

It's been a decade since I was on the lower trail. Aside from it being overgrown and hard to follow in places, I don't remember much. What kind of work needs to be done? One person with one pair of sharp pruners can clear a 2metre swath of branches and shrubs about 100meters long in one hour. So if that's all it needs to be done you certainly don't need a crew for that anymore than to scrub a single route.

Do you need to build waterbars and bridges on the lower trail? Rather than devoting all that time and labour, since the trail isn't well defined presently anyway, might it be simpler to re-route a section slightly it to follow the natural contours and avoid any steeps or wet spots?

[Dom]

Re: lower Trail
IMO, All we need is someone with a mechanical saw to clear deadfall in a few spots.
I pruned and taped a big chunk of the trail last December. No need to make it super nice as it will not see that much traffic but we should make sure it's easy to follow (Right Marty hahaha)

2hrs is the maximum this should take.

Maybe we could have a crew work on that and then have the same crew tackle lower dawn after?
This would be the trail crew. I will volunteer to be on this crew.Thoughts?

Marty is right we should take advantage of having the manpower that day but I agree that not everyone should be on the same crew.

I'm looking forward to climbing some freshly cleaned routes on Simpsons Wall

[Adam]

Re: lower Trail
IMO, All we need is someone with a mechanical saw to clear deadfall in a few spots.
I pruned and taped a big chunk of the trail last December. No need to make it super nice as it will not see that much traffic but we should make sure it's easy to follow (Right Marty hahaha)

agreed. it's pretty easy going, just has to be defined so we all use the same path. no waterbars necessary but someday a couple bridges might be good but maybe let's wait till lots of people are using the trail before putting that much effort into it.

also, relocation of the signin box is a requirement of 'opening' this trail. anyone know/remember how the sign in box is attached to the tree? i will volunteer to move this but would be nice to know what i'm dealing with so i can bring the right tools.

Maybe we could have a crew work on that and then have the same crew tackle lower dawn after?
This would be the trail crew. I will volunteer to be on this crew.Thoughts?

again, i'm not against something happening with lower dawn, but what exactly? are we more concerned with the loss of soil at the cliff base, or more with the debris that's always on the approach slab? soil at the base is not going to stay there b/c we've removed too much plant life, and retaining walls are a waste of time IMHO (see my prev post), but it's debatable of course. i guess we could try to get some boards in place and slow the erosion but i don't think it will stop until all the sand and soil is gone. thoughts?

[Dom]

but i don't think it will stop until all the sand and soil is gone. thoughts?

Hmm, So from what I understand, the big reason why the terrain going up to Lower Dawn is so loose is because there was major rockfall a few winters ago. Obviously, erosion plays a role but I don't think it's that major.

So my idea is to actually try and stabilize the terrain up there. I assume it will take many many years before the sand and soil is gone but if it does happen, I would be the first who would regret not having done anything when I could. Belaying there right now is fine but imagine if you had to do it on a 20 degree slab. It would suck...

[Adam]

but i don't think it will stop until all the sand and soil is gone. thoughts?

Hmm, So from what I understand, the big reason why the terrain going up to Lower Dawn is so loose is because there was major rockfall a few winters ago. Obviously, erosion plays a role but I don't think it's that major.

ah ok i thought it was just from rain run off etc. so, haul some lumber up there and try to build a little wall by wedging the boards behind trees? not sure there are enough trees or that they are close enough together but it's worth a shot if there are enough trees. prob worth taking a measuring tape up and scoping it out before hauling the lumber all that way up. what other options are there besides this sort of construction, or are you thinking you might have to bolt something to the rock beneath?