reindeer land

[Jon Corey]

I climbed it once last year and again on the weekend. I know the bolts were replaced a long time ago but why wasn't the chain put back on? Does someone still have it? If so could it be put back?
I found myself way out in the boulder field just to pull the rope.
Thanks for replacing the bolts.

[Greg]

Hey Jon it was me who replaced the bolts, removed the chains and installed the rap rings. I decided not to replace the chains for a few reasons. Number one they were butt ugly, two they were a bit of a pain to deal with and set up a rapell and three the edge on the top of the block is rounded to allow the rope to pull albeit with a little more force needed than with the chains. If you find the right angle the rope pulls well however if the consensus is to retrofit with chains I can put them back on.

[*Chris*]

I'm thinking your rope-pulling muscles don't get worked frequently enough Jon. I think it pulls fine myself but I have heard others mention this.

[Jon Corey]

Thanks for responding Greg. I think that there are many other uglier things happening in the area. Yes Chris is right my climbing rope pulling muscles don't get used much.
If a compromise could be met and the rope could be set up to be pulled from the rings or from the end of the chains this could satisfy 2 of the 3 problems.

[Adam]

if it goes to a vote, i'd say return the chain to make pulls super easy. the less wear on our ropes the better IMHO. i didn't hear people complaining about the chain to begin with.

[theriault]

if it goes to a vote, i'd say return the chain to make pulls super easy. the less wear on our ropes the better IMHO. i didn't hear people complaining about the chain to begin with.

+1

[aaronhart]

if it goes to a vote, i'd say return the chain to make pulls super easy. the less wear on our ropes the better IMHO. i didn't hear people complaining about the chain to begin with.

was there last week and almost had to climb the route again with the second rope that we had. vote +2

[Dom]

I'll be the devil's advocate and say that Greg took his own personal time and effort to replace the old manky hardware that was up there. So thanks Greg for doing that.

Is anyone willing to cover the expenses of the chains? All this voting business won't get you no where until someone goes up there and replaces them. I'll glady reinstall them and $10-15 should cover it but I'd like to see someone else inject some funds into our crags. It seems it's always the same replacing anchors or donating money and some are profiting from this without ever giving back...

[*Chris*]

I was actually the one who offered up the hardware when Greg offered to do the work so I think it's fair that I scrounge up the chain. In for a penny, in for a pound. I may have something suitable at the house. Consider this my task Dom.

[Dom]

I was actually the one who offered up the hardware when Greg offered to do the work so I think it's fair that I scrounge up the chain. In for a penny, in for a pound. I may have something suitable at the house. Consider this my task Dom.

Thanks Chris! Like I said:

It seems it's always the same replacing anchors or donating money

[Greg]

I have spoken to a few people about this and it seems that others feel the same. As I said I don't mind re-installing the chains. I should have them back on by the middle of next week. Thanks for the offer though Chris.

[F Côté]

To come back to they money issue for a minute, I agree with Dom that the same people shouldn't need to pay in money and effort every time something needs to be done at the cliff. I don't have much experience bolting / working with chains and whatnot but would be willing to pitch in some money if someone had a project in mind (or help out if I know how). I think it would be complicated to have an account of some sort but would make sense to maybe have a thread for people to post what they want to do (i.e. bolt or re-bolt a route) and the approximate cost and people can volunteer to help pitch in. I know I appreciate when people develop new areas/climbs, trundle dangerous blocks, etc because it gives back to the whole climbing community, and the least I could do is pitch in and help cover the cost.
Anyways just a thought I had, you guys can shut it down if its not a good idea.

[Jon Corey]

Just to clarify. I wasn't suggesting to buy a new chain. I was suggesting to put the one back on that was originally there if it was still around. Anyone in the community that replaces or does new development does so with their own funds time and often for their own pleasure. Thank you

[Dom]

I think if anyone goes through the trouble of putting the chains back on, they should put new zinc plated ones. The old ones were very weathered and should've been replaced anyways.

As for the history of the chains, Brent told me that he had placed those chains or the ones on Access Denied he had obtained them from Public Works in SJ for free.

Anyone in the community that replaces or does new development does so with their own funds time and often for their own pleasure

Jon, not sure if you were on an island in the Pacific when we were doing the rebolting project because your statement could not be further from the truth.
If you look at the list below, you will see that all this hardware amounts to a bunch of money- roughly $1500. Luckily, many people who could not go out and rebolt themselves for various reasons, donated to make sure we keep maintaining the relative safety of our crags. A cheque even came out of Vancouver! If we hadn't received these donations, I'm sure not all of these could've been replaced. And may I remind you that, all of the old bolts were/are considered suspect. I snapped one on Telefunken with a quarter of a turn. A Quarter of a turn!!

I'm not sure what kind of person would spend all that time and that cash on hardware for their own pleasure? It was for maintaining the crag, a long overdue maintenance of Cochrane Lane...the crag that we all use and enjoy.

Sorry for being so brash but that statement got my blood boiling.

-Leviathan rebolted by Dom, Marty, Luc; hardware donated by Steve K
-Pursuit of hapiness (1 bolt) rebolted by Marty,Dom, Luc; hardware donated by Steve K
-Granite planet (intermediate anchor) anchor added and hardware donated by Dom
-Honey Pot
-Waterfall arête
-Waterfall Layback anchor added by Dom, hardware donated by Calvin T.
-Tit for Tat
-About a rope anchor added by Chris N., hardware donated by Marcelle
-Montezuma's rebolted by Dom, hardware donated by Greg K
- Spiderman (1 bolt) rebolted by Dom, hardware donated by Dom and Luc
-Dykes on bikes (1 bolt) rebolted by Marty and Gab, hardware donated by Luc
-Tipsy rebolted by Marty and Gab, hardware donated by Luc
-Rock Opera rebolted by Chris N., hardware donated by Stef K.
-The Central Scrutinizer rebolted by Marty, hardware donated by Graham W.
-Perfect rebolted by Marty, hardware donated by Graham W.
-Shredded wheat (1 bolt) rebolted by Dom, hardware donated by Greg K
-Joint venture rebolted by Luc and Dom, hardware donated by Stef K.
-Witches rebolted by Marty, hardware donated by Stef K.
-Talamasca rebolted by Marty, hardware donated by Stef K.
-Be still my bleeding heart
-Tweety bird anchor changed by Marty, hardware donated by Paul Baker
-Taz rebolted and hardware donated by Marty
-Bugs Bunny rebolted and hardware donated by Marty
-Yosemite Sam rebolted by Marty, hardware donated by Paul Baker
-Wile E Coyote/Agent Orange Anchor added by Luc, Dom and Marty, hardware donated by Dom and Luc
-Hole in My pocket Anchor added by Luc, Dom and Marty, hardware donated by Dom and Luc
-Trouble with Lichen rebolted by Dom, hardware donated by Chris N.
-Farewell to arms rebolted+ anchor added by Marty and Luc, hardware donated by Greg K. and Marty
-The Juggler rebolted by Marty, Dom and Luc, hardware donated by Steve K.
-Grandpa's demise
-Slippery when wet anchor added and rebolted by Dom, hardware donated by Zach T.
-Spark start (anchor) anchor replaced,rebolted by Dom, hardware donated by Zach T.
-Sleeping beauty rebolted+ anchor by Marty, Dom and Luc, hardware donated by Stef K.
- Telefunken U-47 Rebolted + anchor and hardware donated by Dom 2009
-Reno Dyhedro rebolted and hardware donated by Dave Peabody 2009
-Reindeer land- anchor rebolted by Greg, hardware donated by Chris N.
-Flight of the Valkyries anchor anchor rebolted by Dom, hardware donated by Zach T.
-Steal your face rebolted by Dom, hardware donated by Stacey
-Feathers
-Prairie-Wolf
-DDT Missing bolts replaced by Greg H.
-Think pure thoughts (1 bolt+ anchor)
-Ejaculator Bolted anchor added and donated by Chris N.
-The Power of Oatmeal Rebolted by Marty and Gab, hardware donated by Marty

[Dom]

And François, what you are suggesting makes sense, and we are working toward making this happen through Ascent NB, an organization that would provide access relief and could coordinate maintenance....something akin to CNS in Nova Scotia. Anyways, the organization is still at its embryo stage...

[theriault]

I also added bolted anchors to Ziggy Piggy and Wise Crack last year. And I will be adding bolted anchors to 5.8 for style and Salt and Pepper.

Lets not forget the cost of drills, drill bits and all the tools needed to bolt stuff (hammer, wrenches, hole cleaners ....)

[cory]

I think it would be complicated to have an account of some sort but would make sense to maybe have a thread for people to post what they want to do (i.e. bolt or re-bolt a route) and the approximate cost and people can volunteer to help pitch in. I know I appreciate when people develop new areas/climbs, trundle dangerous blocks, etc because it gives back to the whole climbing community, and the least I could do is pitch in and help cover the cost.

People have been known to anonymously slip some cash into these labourer packs when their backs are turned (and up high).

[Greg]

I think it would be complicated to have an account of some sort but would make sense to maybe have a thread for people to post what they want to do (i.e. bolt or re-bolt a route) and the approximate cost and people can volunteer to help pitch in. I know I appreciate when people develop new areas/climbs, trundle dangerous blocks, etc because it gives back to the whole climbing community, and the least I could do is pitch in and help cover the cost.

People have been known to anonymously slip some cash into these labourer packs when their backs are turned (and up high).

While on the topic....A big thank you to Greg Kelly for donating hardware in the form of bolt hangers. Much appreciated.

[Jon Corey]

Dom, simmer down and don't get your rope in a bunch. There is nothing to get your blood boiling on this topic of the reindeer original chains being put back on. (although not the actual title) I went back and had to read the post where you were starting to complain a bit about people doing tons of work and others benefiting. I have no intention of asking Greg to spend his own money or for him to spend anyone elses money on a new chain. Simply put if the chain still existed could it be put back on. I recall the chain looking rusty on the surface but otherwise in fine health.
Greg, If that original chain really is not safe to reuse I will reimburse the cost of the chain and mailons to either you or Dom.

[Dom]

Hey Jon, I feel this conversation would be better with beers in front of a fire.
Anyways, I responded to this comment and this comment alone

Anyone in the community that replaces or does new development does so with their own funds time and often for their own pleasure.

I feel it was counterproductive to say that only people that go out and put time and effort should be the one contributing. The rebolting project is a great example of climbers getting together to get something done - (some on the terrain replacing bolts, and some behind the scene funding the project)

I was not saying or implying that you personally should replace the chains.

When I said :

It seems it's always the same replacing anchors or donating money and some are profiting from this without ever giving back...

it was not aimed at you or at anyone specifically. You've helped out over the years and many others have. The list is too long to enumerate who in the community contributed... But some climbers have never helped out, and I'm offering them an invitation to contribute...

Again, lots can be misinterpreted on an online forum so we'll need to discuss this over beers in Welsford sometime when the rain stops

[Jon Corey]

Dom, sounds like a great idea. I'll get in touch when I get back from the Pacific

[Stacey]

I thought we had set up a paypal account with Calvin Taylor for this specific purpose?

[Dom]

I thought we had set up a paypal account with Calvin Taylor for this specific purpose?

I don't think it works.

(Or maybe it does and that's how Calvin has been financing his home renos )

Like I said, if and when Ascent NB or Climb NB is up and running, this is something they can look at doing.

[Greg]

Chains are back on.....rope pulls like butter