New routes 2012

[Dom]

Good work gents!!!

[GKelly]

Thanks Shawn, I climbed that route this spring and didn't have any fun at all. I look forward to trying it in its new form.

[theriault]

Mt Doug

Pas D'Flagossage 5.10a 40'/S(3)/T
FFA L.Gallant, M. Theriault 15/04/2012
Climb the pocketed line just below the big pine tree on the ledge at the base of "Sunset Boulevard"

3 of us climbed this route today and thought it was definitely harder than 10a. More like 10d we thought. I compare it to Power of Oatmeal that I've climbed recently (10c, short) and Pas D'Flag is harder..

I think its only 10-... its not hard, just balancy....I still think its the FFA ist choice to put a grade on a new route... later on, after a good amount of traffic, a good concensus could be adopted.... my 2 cents lol

PS I love these debates HAHA! (all in good fun )

[Dom]

I still think its the FFA ist choice to put a grade on a new route

Perhaps it is the FFA's choice to put wathever grade he wants. But the FFA is also in the worst position to accurately grade a route as he has spent a considerable amount of time scrubbing it and knows where all the key holds are. Thus, making it a different ascent from a regular joe-blow who hops on it Onsight.

That's why I always ask others what they think about the grade after climbing my routes and I actually listen to them. For example, Tylenul was upgraded to from 11c to 11d after PJ said it's 12a. If a few more people say it's 12- than, I'll upgrade to 12a or so. Grading is no science, but IMO that is the best way to do it to try and get something relatively accurate.

[theriault]

I still think its the FFA ist choice to put a grade on a new route

Perhaps it is the FFA's choice to put wathever grade he wants. But the FFA is also in the worst position to accurately grade a route as he has spent a considerable amount of time scrubbing it and knows where all the key holds are. Thus, making it a different ascent from a regular joe-blow who hops on it Onsight.

Good point! all I think I was saying here is that we need more traffic on new routes to get good accurate grades, it seem to always be the same small crew hoping on the new routes... so this is a call to everyone else out there that climbs on a regular basis, get on the new routes! haha lots of work is going into creating these routes so get on them!!!

[Stacey]

... it seem to always be the same small crew hopping on the new routes...

This actually is a good thing (the consensus is more concise with the same group).

I would say having four other people climbing the route, would give proper consensus for the grade.

[Stacey]

... FFA is also in the worst position to accurately grade a route as he has spent a considerable amount of time scrubbing it and knows where all the key holds are. ....

I agree Dom, the grade is supposed to reflect the 'onsight' grade (in my understanding), which makes the FFA the worst to leave the final grade.

When we new route, we try to 'set' the grade (tentatively) when we first do the FA, trying to get an idea of where the on-sight grade would be.

[Dom]

This route is currently equipped with fixed draws, and can be easily worked. Well worth getting on. Steep, pumpy, powerful, and totally unique.

HADES 5.13b 70'/M(7)/R(2)
FA: P. Adamson, S. Adamson Aug. 2012
FFA: P. Adamson. S. Adamson Aug 2012
In the back of the ampitheatre, on the left wall. Start up the left leaning ramp that leads to Flight of the Valkyries, but cut up off the ramp before FOTV, heading straight up a crack, past a pin, into a small alcove. From the alcove, place a few pieces, then fire straight up the overhanging headwall past 7 bolts.

-PJ

How hard is the trad part on this? Are pieces mandatory? I might hop on it to get my as$ spanked! Last time I tried to climb a 13 in Welsford, Access Denied absolutely kicked my butt. How does this compare to AD?

[PeterA]

This route is currently equipped with fixed draws, and can be easily worked. Well worth getting on. Steep, pumpy, powerful, and totally unique.

HADES 5.13b 70'/M(7)/R(2)
FA: P. Adamson, S. Adamson Aug. 2012
FFA: P. Adamson. S. Adamson Aug 2012
In the back of the ampitheatre, on the left wall. Start up the left leaning ramp that leads to Flight of the Valkyries, but cut up off the ramp before FOTV, heading straight up a crack, past a pin, into a small alcove. From the alcove, place a few pieces, then fire straight up the overhanging headwall past 7 bolts.

-PJ

How hard is the trad part on this? Are pieces mandatory? I might hop on it to get my as$ spanked! Last time I tried to climb a 13 in Welsford, Access Denied absolutely kicked my butt. How does this compare to AD?

The trad part is pretty easy. 5.9+ or 5.10-. Really good gear and a super solid pin. Gear is definitely necessary though. I use a .75 BD before the pin, a .75 or a 1 BD after the pin, then a #6 BD nut, then you get to the first bolt.

As far as how it compares, it's way less crimpy than access denied. Hades has much bigger holds, bigger moves, and is way more funky. There's an early crux, which gives the route it's grade. It's well worth pulling through that crux and climbing the upper headwall, which goes at 5.12 b ish. The upper section is very overhanging, and very fun. Dad and I left our draws on it, so definitely give it a go!

-PJ

[coryhal]

another steep route at norton shore

Screech Bombers – 5.11b s(5) r(2) 60 feet FFA: Cory Hall, Ian Lingley Aug/12

Found on the left side of the main upper wall at Norton shore. Work up right into the corner, then up the steep corner past more bolts to bolt anchors bellow the roofs. We wanted to continue to the top but the rock wouldn’t stay on the wall. Fun pumpy line


oh and that route at mt doug your all talking about, IMO is 5.10+, i on-sighted it not knowing the grade and thought 5.10d. but nothing beats a good sandbag!!

[IanLingley]

A previous top rope climb at bald hill was bolted on the Sunday,

Loose Moose 5.10b/c
Type: Trad & Sport, 1 pitch, 25 feet
FA: Fa: Jon & Pj adamson FFA: Ian Lingley, Eric Fox
Description:
First bolt can be stick clipped or requires one blanacey move. Follow crips and flakes past another bolt and gear placements. Finishes at a two bolt anchor.
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/loose-moose/107577433


Screech Bombers is a really nice line to warm up on if you're going to try PJ new climbs at the Monster Wall.

[theriault]

New route - Aug25/12
Friction Addiction - 5.9 G **
Gallery Wall - Start as per Waterwalk/Trundling and gain the first big ledge. Climb the back corner to the right of Waterwalk until the corner ends. Step right onto a small ledge and climb the low angle finger crack until it ends. Clip a bolt and make slab moves (crux) up and finish at Astroboy anchor.
FA S. Bethune, D. Hamel, T. Thibodeau Aug/2010
FFA S. Bethune, G. Hughes Aug/2012

Climbed this over the weekend, great addition to L-Shape! Well Done!

[theriault]

but nothing beats a good sandbag!!

Thank you Cory, my thoughts exactly! It Keeps a little excitement/adventure in the area! plus we do have a good history of it so why not keep the tradition going

[theriault]

Corn and KD 5.8 20'/S(2)/T
FFA F. Zambito, M. Thériault 11/09/12

Climb found on the far right of The Attic, about 20' right of Quiet just pass the huge log leaning against the cliff. This is a variation of an old top rope route formaly known as "The Hard and The Easy".



PS.... This was Franca's first bolt job and FFA!!!

[Dom]

Corn and KD 5.8 20'/S(2)/T
FFA F. Zambito, M. Thériault 11/09/12

Climb found on the far right of The Attic, about 20' right of Quiet just pass the huge log leaning against the cliff. This is a variation of an old top rope route formaly known as "The Hard and The Easy".

A few of us climbed it and we all thought that it's definitely harder than 5.8. I think it's at least a 5.10-, so 5.10a sounds ok. If you're a 5.8 climber and get on this route, you're gonna hate your life. I, on the other hand, liked it .

Also, I'll change the description for the new routes log as we took down that ''huge log leaning against the cliff''. It was in the way of the route.

[theriault]

A few of us climbed it and we all thought that it's definitely harder than 5.8. I think it's at least a 5.10-, so 5.10a sounds ok. If you're a 5.8 climber and get on this route, you're gonna hate your life..

Also, I'll change the description for the new routes log as we took down that ''huge log leaning against the cliff''. It was in the way of the route.

Grade Police hits again

but seriously, if the log was in the way, you probably made the route harder than supposed to be... to routes follows the bolts, no wandering necessary and no moves harder than 5.8 (Franca and I had totally diffrent beta on this and thought it to be faire at that grade). About it being scary... its a 20ft moderate sport climb.... if someone is afraid to lead this, they might need a few more top rope lessons....

[Dom]

Grade Police hits again

but seriously, if the log was in the way, you probably made the route harder than supposed to be... to routes follows the bolts, no wandering necessary and no moves harder than 5.8 (Franca and I had totally diffrent beta on this and thought it to be faire at that grade).

I'm not by any means a grade police. just stating my opinion on new routes. A grade is always a suggestion and never set in stone until confirmation. I wish more people gave their opinions on grades.

So Franca is the one who told me it was harder than 5.8 before I got on it. She told me she went with others last week and they all thought it was harder. So I climbed it twice. The second time with her beta. Both times felt harder than 5.8. Max confirmed this and suggested 5.10. Franca acknowledged it and said we should change the grade. If you feel it's 5.8 Marty, good for you but a consensus is forming for something harder.

About it being scary... its a 20ft moderate sport climb.... if someone is afraid to lead this, they might need a few more top rope lessons....

Who said anything about it being scary?

[theriault]

Who said anything about it being scary?

My bad, I was refering to this lol

If you're a 5.8 climber and get on this route, you're gonna hate your life.

I realise and understand the need for consensus grades, but does this mean the end of our Sandbag history? Most of the North East of North America seem to have been following this trend of stiff grades and I think our pioneers where part of this.... It was something to be proud of...Are we gonna turn our back on this? This is just my opinion on it, just as important as all the bolting ethics in my books. I would like to hear other opinion's on this.

[Dom]

IMO It's all about grades being consistent in one area. For instance, a new 5.10 in Welsford should feel comparable to other 5.10's in welsford.

Not some BS thing about sandbagging because Welsford is allegedly sandbag. (it's not IMO, except for a few odd routes)

[Andrew]

Interesting. I was explicitly scared into NOT installing bolts there and so didn't out of fear of chopping and evil insults.

I'm interested to know what the variation is, as you can either go straight up starting a little left or a little right and start right and go left and finish at the tree.

Interesting how my useless "stupid bouldering problem, not worthy of bolts" is now another route?

Feel free to explain why it's now OK to bolt twenty feet of "bouldering problem"?

Don't get me wrong, have at her. I haven't been on rock for nearly a year. Now there's bolts, I can go lead the route! YAY!

Corn and KD 5.8 20'/S(2)/T
FFA F. Zambito, M. Thériault 11/09/12

Climb found on the far right of The Attic, about 20' right of Quiet just pass the huge log leaning against the cliff. This is a variation of an old top rope route formaly known as "The Hard and The Easy".



PS.... This was Franca's first bolt job and FFA!!!

[Dom]

Interesting. I was explicitly scared into NOT installing bolts there and so didn't out of fear of chopping and evil insults.

I'm interested to know what the variation is, as you can either go straight up starting a little left or a little right and start right and go left and finish at the tree.

Interesting how my useless "stupid bouldering problem, not worthy of bolts" is now another route?

Feel free to explain why it's now OK to bolt twenty feet of "bouldering problem"?

Don't get me wrong, have at her. I haven't been on rock for nearly a year. Now there's bolts, I can go lead the route! YAY!

I think this routes is worthy of bolts. It climbs about 3' left of your route though and only shares one big square like feature. I don't see how someone could justify chopping bolts on this route when Quiet 5.11 has been beside it with bolts for years. I've never seen Ken Nichols in Welsford

[sam]

I've never seen Ken Nichols in Welsford

Sweet jesus that's terrifying. I'll never understand these "purist" climbers absolute hatred for sport climbing. But that's a whole other discussion which probably shouldn't happen in the new routes thread

[STeveA]

I actually climbed with Ken Nichols in New Hampshire in the 1980's. I did not know his history at the time.

[austinconrad]

I actually climbed with Ken Nichols in New Hampshire in the 1980's. I did not know his history at the time.

Wow! I had never heard of this guy before reading this post. He seems like a bit of a doucher IMO. I'm glad he's never visited NB and I hope he never does!

[Dom]

I doubt he has chopped many bolts since This.

[IanLingley]

I was climbing in New Hampshire and Maine over the last week and got a chance to climb with Ken. What a cool guy, running laps on the 10's and 11's and soloing all the 6's and 7's. Climbed with him all day, by far the nicest climber we encountered on the trip.

[Adam]

I was climbing in New Hampshire and Maine over the last week and got a chance to climb with Ken. What a cool guy, running laps on the 10's and 11's and soloing all the 6's and 7's. Climbed with him all day, by far the nicest climber we encountered on the trip.

Yup, even people who chop bolts can be decent people under other circumstances

[Dom]

New route in Cochrane Lane went up today! It's on upper dawn wall just left of dynamic duo and right of Ain't a Gebronie.

MOUSTACHE 5.9* PG 60'/N/T
FFA: L. Gallant, D. Caron, M. Thériault 2012.10.27
Climb the arête left of Dynamic Duo. Starts on the same ledge as Ain't no Gebronie down and left of the Upper Dawn ledge. Great technical movements with good, albeit tricky gear placements. This is an independent line that shares the odd hold with Ain't no Gebronie.

Not sure about the grade, needs confirmation, very nice route get on it people!!

[Adam]

211. BULLWHIP DAYS 5.11b 60'/M(3)/R(2)
FA: M. Leblanc, G. Losier 1996
FFA: D. Caron, A. Dowding 2012.06.25
Technical face climbing right of Astroboy Direct. Start at the rap station at the base of Astroboy direct and traverse on a horizontal crack to get to a bolted face split by more horizontal cracks. Bring small cams for the horizontal cracks. Nothing bigger than a 0.75 BD was used on the FFA.
Note: Route was bolted by A. Morgan who is expecting a new family member anytime now.

As always let me know what you think about the grade. Guidebook said 11c but I think that may be a bit soft? Also, I was led to believe that this route was super clean but didn't find it clean enough to my liking so will be back to scrub it pretty soon! Until then, don't hesitate to hop on it but don't complain if you find it dirty

I cleaned this route thoroughly today and added fixe ring anchors. This route is a mix of bone machine and astroboy direct so it's grreat! Get on it people!

Adam I have your biners that were left on the anchor.

Finally got around to getting on this yesterday. Definitely felt easier than when I top roped it. THanks for cleaning it up to an acceptable level Dom I would agree with the grade of 11b. Great route - well protected, crux over gear but super clean falls! Get on it!

[Dom]

Finally got around to getting on this yesterday. Definitely felt easier than when I top roped it. THanks for cleaning it up to an acceptable level Dom I would agree with the grade of 11b. Great route - well protected, crux over gear but super clean falls! Get on it!

Hey Adam good send yesterday!
I find the crux is when you have the 2nd bolt around your waist ish so I wouldn't say crux over gear but that's me. That being said, the line is pretty sustained up until the very end. I'm glad it's getting traffic! like Adam said Get on it!