Retro bolting?

[seanT]

its raining im bored... trying to come up with a short list of routes that should be retro-bolted due to the new wave popularity of sport climbing sweeping NS. Any thoughts?
Black diamond
hesitation breeds chaos
heavy petter
sweaty cheese
out of the doldrums
im sure there are more...
SeanT

[stoneseeker]

With Eagles Nest recently being cleaned up by CNS, would it be worth it to re-bolt a few of the better routes there?
I know last I looked (2 years ago?) there were no bolts on Evening Wall Direct 5.11c (old ones had been chopped, because they were too rusty.)

Todd Foster made mention of replacing them, but I don't know if it ever happened...

Also, perhaps a few bolt anchors at the top would be nice there, since it has mostly easy stuff that beginners would probably enjoy top roping. (where there isn't trees that would suffice)

[chameleon]

ST, if you take a video while you're at it, will you then have the legitimate FA?

[seanT]

Not just video but a retinal scan as well...That will be required for any old and new "ass-scents" to be considered valid on my new webstite MOMO Beta. I mean anyone can just write down on piece of paper that they climbed something or such...we need legit proof and scientific verification. Also if you want to be a contributor on MOMO Beta You will have to put a MOMO on your vehicle to let others know you are part of such a elite group of climbers.
SeanT

[Quinn]

Yeah, lending a helping hand rather than being a whiney little brat on the internet makes you an elite climber. Has your son gotten into your CEC account again Therien? The maturity level is befitting.

[seanT]

Sheesh take a chill pill or prescribe yourself something dude...I cant blame you though its gotta suck doing all those FA's naming and grading stuff only to find out that your latest futuristic problem was sent 10yrs ago by Swyer or worse CASSIDY god! THAT guy was over the hill before the tectonic plates even started shifting...
T OUT!

[Quinn]

Interesting a local gym owner would see an effort to improve access to local climbing as a narcissistic injury rather than a business promotion.

[seanT]

Can we get back on topic here please hello? RETRO BOLTING.

[keir]

Maybe turning 40 is making me crusty, but I'm not sure something like Black Diamond which takes OK gear should be bolted; Hesitation Breeds Chaos I can understand. What would be sweet is a couple more anchors at the top of stuff (e.g. Lycra and Spandex, Doing the Rustle (or whatever that finger crack at the far left of sorrow's is called), See with Joy (the real top - not Big Foot Motel)).

[Rich]

Me thinks that having a diversity of route types is important and that the best way to do this is to maintain current routes in the style that they have been developed and intended to be climbed by the first ascentionists.

Hesitation has seen at least a couple leads in the last few years and although I can't speak for others, i would suspect that their experiences were more fulfilling than if the route were bolted. Not everyone is looking for the same fix, and not everyone will be interested in the same style of climbs during their climbing "career".

Retrobolting is sometimes promoted undfer the auspices of making climbing "more accessible" to others - but this logic seems weird to me and I think the same reasoning could be used for modifying climbs to make their grades easier. I'd love to be able to climb Transformer - would anybody mind if I added a couple crimps to the top section? Afterall, if anybody wanted to climb it the original way, it would be easy to avoid the chipped holds...

On the flip side, if routes are retrobolted by individuals without the permission from the first ascentionists (from conversations with a few friends it seems like this is being considered by some in the province) - then doesn't this just open opportunities for other individuals to chop bolts that they don't agree with? Might be a slippery slope to start regardless of one's own climbing preferences...

Plus, there is still lots of room to develop purely bolted climbs ... go visit Main Face.


r

[Zamboni]

HAHA, the bolting issues come back again, like that present the hooker left you 10 years ago. I agree with Rich ethic's, but I'll stick to the topic at hand. Heavy Petter seams fine to me. Has black diamond seen any recent rippers on the bolts? Not sure about any of the other lines. I re-bolted some of the lines at eagle's nest 5-7 years ago. 3-4 lines far left hand side next to slabs.

FYI, I enjoyed the comment about Little T hacking big T's CEC account. Thanks Quinn.

[Danger]

I was thinking the way around this controversy... instead of bolts, what about fixed protection (rap placed of course). I know what you're thinking, "Shite Son! You're a genius", well I know. So here's what we do, get CNS to shell out some cash, rap down lines and fully deck out the cracks with pre-placed and permanently fixed cams, nuts, hexes, shrubberies, and what ever else we can mank into those cracks... AND BOOM! The province is fully sport climb prepped, no one has to chop any bolts, and we still get all the fun and gear trickery of trad climbing. Win Win. Though that would eliminate the fun of some sweet internet haterade.... Win Win Loose

[stoneseeker]

well I learned something new... I assumed retro bolting was replacing old unsafe bolts. Not adding new ones to trad lines.

I agree with Rich that the FA should be honored, and if the route goes all trad, then it why not leave it for those who enjoy traditional?
Where I see a grey area perhaps, (and I could be convinced either way here) is mixed routes. If the route has 4 bolts, and then a run out section where you need a #2 cam in the only crack on the route, why not just toss one more bolt there? At least it seems to me this would keep it consistent --all sport or all trad-- and open the almost sport line up to those who simply don't have any trad gear... its not like its a pure trad line as it stands, mixed. Is there "mixed" purists out there too? If so, then I would find it difficult to argue, because then it still would be disrespectful to the FA.

I'm curious to see where this discussion goes...
*grabs popcorn and sits back*

[Scooter]

I like the ring of HOMO beta.

I think it is OK to retro existing sport climbs. And boulders? I had two racks once. Then i sold them. Ramble.

What about inflating or deflating grades because. ?.....?...

Ahahahahah swyer would love this thread.

[seanT]

MO love for MOBETA
for the record Ground Zero Climbing Gym 100% supports MOBETA. Keep up the good work...and everyone looking to bag a cool V7 should check out the DynoFlatulator traverse at Herring cove.
Lance OUTTTTTTTTTT

[Joey]

Part of me feels if I don’t want to climb it the way of the first ascent then don’t, another part of me though, feels it would be great to walk to the bottom of a route and have the option to lead it traditionally or lead it sport, climb it top rope ect…
I wouldn’t feel like the first ascent was lost or the climb is now soiled just because there’s some bolts.
People choose to top rope traditional and sport routes all the time essentially climbing them differently than it was intended. Don’t people sometimes place gear between bolts they feel are too run out?
The only difference between the above and bolting a traditional route is you give a person who doesn’t agree with you the power to change it.

[mick]

Please do not feed the trolls.

[chameleon]

the MOFOs  are debating......

"What are the rules?....
of the game
........ we are playing?"

Not realizing, of course
.......that we are playing
.......different games. 

Let us preserve and pursue....
........this........DIVERSITY. 

Let the games................begin. 

- Magister Ludi, circa. 1894

[Scooter]

If it weren't for fun, unseriousterated trash talk, this would this would just be another message bored.

Love love love. unless your smizzle. then hate hate hate.

[Scooter]

***YOU'RE***
oh god. the ridicule.

anybody see craig stamp?

[stoneseeker]

Wouldn't have thought a climbing debate could become so poetic and philosophical!


Stamp?
I think I saw a picture of his finger... or whats left of it. This thread seriously needs more Newfoundland.

[Dom]

I don't climb much around Halifax but I have a few times and I remember my onsight attempt of the route Sins and Transgression at First face. What a brilliant route but what a flowery run-out bolt job. Was that route put up ground-up? Sorry for the hate but that has to be an R rated sport and from what I remember the guidebook really doesn't prepare you for what you're getting into.
Anyways, FWIW which is very little, I think this route should be retrobolted.