New Route at Above Down Home Wall

[john]

Hey Cory,

I actually thought what I was adding was constructive, I certainly was not insulting anyone. I thought a different perspective might be useful. I thought I wrote it respectfully.

I am not sure what your problem is?

Why dont we meet, drink a beer, discuss ethics and arm wrestle?

BTW I always brush my tick marks hahahahhahahah

[*Chris*]

Hey John,

If Cory doesn't show I'm totally up for a beer and an arm wrastle! You'll have to remind me what we're supposed to be talking about though.

[Shawn B]

Anyone know how much snow we're supposed to get Wed?

[Shawn B]

And...oh...did someone put up a new route somewhere?

[cory]

@ John,

Your comments were so poorly thought out and irrelevant to the rest of the thread that I thought you were looking for a fight. My mistake. Beer sounds good.

[john]

no sweat, i have way to little time to troll on a forum and look for a fight, i only post things i really care about some agree some dont by i am always sincere

[Leehammer]

hug it out, bitches

[PeterA]

The difference being that bolts stay put, trad gear leaves with you. I still haven't seen the connection

-PJ

well, even trad gear becomes fixed at times....

in any case, the point was that whether we use trad gear or bolts, we're relying on gear to make the experience 'safe'. nothing to do with the removability of the gear.

It has everything to do with removability of the gear though. Yes occasionally, trad gear does get stuck, but very rarely. Even if it does get stuck, it doesn't usually stay there for long. The issue was the sense of adventure. With the bolts, they aren't going anywhere. There's nothing to think about, just clip, clip, clip. With removable gear, it doesn't matter how many people have climbed the route beforehand, you're still going to have to figure the gear placements out for yourself.

DISCLAIMER: I am neither for nor against bolts, merely involved in a completely sidetracked discussion about the sense of adventure. Please don't hurt me.

-PJ

[Adam]

The issue was the sense of adventure.

if it is about adventure, isn't it more of an adventure if you don't place any gear at all!? i'm just saying this whole thing is on a continuum with something akin to freesoloing naked in antarctica at one end and aiding on a bolt ladder in your basement with a winch to pull up your house on each bolt with a generator to do the lifting and three separate committees to tell you how to proceed.

[STeveA]

Its similar to comparing a high wire act with and without a net. They are both the same exercise, but with different consequences. Bolting is like lowering the High Wire to 1" off the ground. Comparing crossing a wire 1" off the ground to crossing a wire 100' off the ground does not make sense. Same physical exercise but very different sports. I suspect it would not be called High Wire act if it is only 1" off the ground.

[Adam]

Its similar to comparing a high wire act with and without a net. They are both the same exercise, but with different consequences. Bolting is like lowering the High Wire to 1" off the ground. Comparing crossing a wire 1" off the ground to crossing a wire 100' off the ground does not make sense. Same physical exercise but very different sports. I suspect it would not be called High Wire act if it is only 1" off the ground.

if bolting is lowering it to 1", then using trad gear is just the same.... only you take the high wire home with you

[STeveA]

if bolting is lowering it to 1", then using trad gear is just the same.... only you take the high wire home with you

If that was true, then there would be just as many hard technical trad climbs as there are sport climbs. However, I do not see at lot of 5.14 and above trad climbs, however there are many sport climbs in this range.

[Adam]

if bolting is lowering it to 1", then using trad gear is just the same.... only you take the high wire home with you

If that was true, then there would be just as many hard technical trad climbs as there are sport climbs. However, I do not see at lot of 5.14 and above trad climbs, however there are many sport climbs in this range.

disagree. the disproportionate number of trad routes vs sport is more a factor of the accessibility of sport climbing (ie the removal of more of the danger) and thus the number of people equipping routes, combined with the apparent fact that there are more difficult crack-less faces than difficult cracks to climb. most people would rather climb for fun than to put themselves in excessive danger in order to not clip a bolt. otherwise everyone would be an alpine climber.