Rusty Bolts Replacement, Best Practice?

[pulldown]

To Start i just want to say great job on all the hard work you guys have been doing in NB to replace your old bolts. Putting up routes is a great deal of work and retro-bolting is even harder and sometimes must feel a lot less rewarding.
I have a few question regarding the techniques used to replace bolts as i may start to take on the job here in NS.

1) I read on the American Safe Climbing Association website that they recommend pulling the old bolts and redrilling the same hole to remove the rusted sleeve left behind. They consider it the most sustainable practice in the long term. My thoughts on this are that you would end up making the hole bigger and therefore the new bolt would not grab. Thoughts?

2) Have you guys tried to pull bolts or is it better to pound them in or snap them off? If you pull them do you have any tips?

3) what are you using for epoxy to cover the old bolts/holes?

Again great job guys, and thanks for sharing your experience.

Todd

[theriault]

First off… forget about pulling bolts… if its anything like us it’s a lost cause…The best scenario is to pound them in (if the original bolter has drilled the hole deep enough… probably not lol). If you can't, break them with a hammer (after you remove the hangers). Epoxy those holes and cover them with pieces of rock to camouflage the hole and drill new ones about 2 inches (ish) from the old one, this is of course depending on ROCK QUALITY! Make sure to pound really hard on the rock with your hammer before you start drilling to make sure it’s a good placement, remember that this is permanent hardware, do it right the first time! For epoxy, I use something like this
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/6 ... ?locale=en

If you need more info, find me on FB I’ll be happy to help!
Cheers

[Dom]

Hey Todd. I'm pretty sure the American Safe Climbing Association talks about re-bolting old 1/4 inch bolts. These are much smaller bolts than the 3/8'' or 1/2'' we are used to in the maritimes. Therefore, pulling these bolts is actually possible (yup scary). After the bolt has been pulled, they'll enlarge the 1/4'' hole with a 3/8'' or 1/2'' bit making it a perfect ''newish'' 3/8 or 1/2'' hole.

When I first rebolted a few years back, I tryed pulling the bolt out and it was impossible. A nice 3/8'' bolt in compact granite is not supposed to be pulled out unless you are using something hydraulic hehe!

That's why we don't pull 'em out, and Marty explained really well the rebolting process.

Just to add to what Marty said, when we put the epoxy we hammer little pebels on the epoxy. The crushed rock mixes with the epoxy and it does a damn good job of camouflaging the old hole. Next time you're in Welsford, try to find the old holes on Leviathan.

[pulldown]

Thanks Marty.
I've placed lots of bolts and i've always made sure i drill deep enough so that when they need to be replaced they can just be pounded in, it takes more battery juice and drill bit life span but i think it's worth it in the end.
I figured that trying to pull the bolts would be futile but i thought i would ask anyway. the ASCA also recomends drilling new holes 6 inches from the old bolts. I think that might be a bit extreem for solid granite.
I was a bit skeptical of redrilling 3/8 bolts so i read the article a couple of times and it did sound like they were talking about pulling 3/8 but it wasn't totally clear either.

[Dom]

drill new ones about 2 inches (ish) from the old one

he ASCA also recomends drilling new holes 6 inches from the old bolts.

I agree with that recommendation. You don't want to go too close to the old bolts for a number of reason. 2 inches is too close but Marty put (ish) and has a hard time with distances so he probably meant 6 hehe.

[theriault]

Marty put (ish) and has a hard time with distances so he probably meant 6 hehe.

I hate you to Dom

[Fred]

In my opinion, the 6" rule is intended for when you are simultaneously loading two bolts next to each other (like an anchor). The hardware is intended for use in concrete and the mod of failure at pullout is a cone that initiates from the wedge. So to avoid overlaping 45 degree cones for a 3" deep stud you would position the bolts at least 6" appart (3" radius cone for each bolt drawn at the surface). Since one bolt is being abandoned when you replace them I'm not sure the 6" rule is as critical.

Having said that, I would still put the new bolts 6" away where possible.

My two cents.