Using a tree for a handhold, cheating?

[Dom]

So as the poll says this question applies to clean ascents also known as sending, redpoints, pinkpoints, On-sight, flash, etc.

If you're the type of climber that thinks free climbing is just to get to the top by all means necessary, then this question doesn't apply to you.

To make things more interesting I'm posting this video of Adam Ondra on a 9b (5.15b aka impossible climb for mere mortals)

http://www.vimeo.com/25514787
Check out the video at 13:15

[granite_grrl]

IMO if you sling it for pro it's on route.

In the case of the video the route developer could have decluttered the route by removing the tree, but it looks like it's all over when he hits that point. Using the tree isn't going to make a difference in the grade.

[PeterA]

Pulling on a tree doesn't negate a clean ascent at all. It doesn't compare to pulling on a draw, because you didn't put the tree there. It seems contrived to have to tell people that they can only use the rock on a given route, and not all the natural features available.

Now, if you brought a tree up with you, planted it into a crack at the curx of the route and used it as a handhold 5 years later, I don't think you could call that one valid

-PJ

[martha]

i'm of the opinion that all is fair game when Trad climbing, hell, I think that bushwacking is sometimes a necessary evil on trad routes, therefore the tree is a valid hand hold. I use the lower tree on Pass the Moonshine everytime I do it.

On a sport route.. I don't think trees are 'in'.

[*Chris*]

If trees are growing out of your sport routes... chances are good it sucks.

Seriously though Dom... it's o.k. to yard on your tree when nobody is looking... it's not o.k. to talk about it.

[GKelly]

Trees are totally in.

[theriault]

If you don't like trees, go indoors and pull plastic!!! lol

[Shawn B]

Ok for trad. Birch Aide (note the name...it tells you to use it) in Bar Harbour used to be 5.6. The tree is no longer there and the route is no longer 5.6. Same for Lower Refuse in Conway...used to be 5.5 when the tree was there...now 5.8 or so I think. Sometimes the tree makes the climbing more difficult if you don't use it...it gets in the way of the good rock holds. So all is game in trad...turf, alders, trees, rock, etc. The beautiful birch on the "5.8" 3rd pitch of Diedre in Conway is one of the nicest trees you will ever hug.

Not ok on a sport route. And agree the sport route is prob not very good if there is a tree on it. I think most sport routes are pretty much cleaned of foliage except for at an anchor/belay.

[Dom]

Well this is good news. I'm working on getting Ziggy Piggy (trad climb) clean and the desperate top is super dirty but there is this awesome fridge handle root that I had been avoiding. It's not the crux but I could see falling there because I am pretty gassed when I get there. I was using this slopey lichen covered block. So next time I'm definitely using that root.

I didn't really climb trad until I moved back to NB so didn't really know what the ethics was with using trees while trad climbing. I guess in the end it's just a fight with myself so it doesn't really matter...hehe

it's o.k. to yard on your tree when nobody is looking... it's not o.k. to talk about it.

Chris didn't your hear? Obama said no more don't ask, don't tell. hehe

[*Chris*]

It's a matter of style... not a matter of ethic.

Style - your actions only impact your own experience on the route
Ethic - your actions impact on the experience others will have

At least that's how I see it. As for the tree on Ziggy Piggy... if you yank on it... probably nobody but you will care.

That said... youch! That looks like a stout line!

[Adam]

if the tree is there, it's in. otherwise go inside and climb eliminate problems. if the tree isn't in then cut it down.

i've seen in videos the likes of Adam Ondra and Steve McClure grab trees on hard sport routes. maybe let them know they're not in, Stump

[Nihoa]

you trad climbers are like women, the harder i try the less i understand you!

[cory]

Dom (and everyone else, for that matter) read this piece of non-fiction by the legendary John Long:

http://rockandice.com/articles/how-to-c ... royal-scam

[*Chris*]

That was a great story! Thanks for the link Cory. Long is a clever writer.

[aaronhart]

i am enthralled by this video great links thanks. love the landscape of spain. the roof climb was super sick. cough cough caught the climbing bug.