Rusty bolts in Cochrane Lane

[Dom]

Hey all, there is a ton of routes with rusty bolts in Welsford. I think at this point it should be a community thing to replace them. I'll be rebolting some routes in the near future. It would be nice if others would do the same. Don't forget that you climb on these bolts for free. If you want to help but don't have the experience/time/knowledge, you could find someone who is willing to rebolt and give them a bit of money for hardware costs.

If you think rusty bolts are fine, Well, when I rebolted Telefunken a couple years ago, on the 3rd bolt I tightened a quarter turn and it snapped! QUARTER TURN! That bolt would NOT have held a whipper! And these sketchy corroded bolts are all over the place in Cochrane Lane.

Anyways, I suggest we start a thread where we list all of the routes that are in dire need of replacement hardware.

-Pursuit of hapiness (1 bolt)
-Waterfall arête
-Montezuma's
- Spiderman (1 bolt)
-Dykes on bikes (1 bolt)
-Rock Opera
-The Central Scrutinizer
-Perfect
-Shredded wheat (1 bolt)
-Joint venture
-Witches
-Talamasca
-Be still my bleeding heart
-Tweety bird
-Taz
-Bugs Bunny
-Yosemite Sam
-Trouble with Lichen
-Farewell to arms
-The Juggler

These are all the ones I can think of for now. If you know of any other please add them to the list.

The beautiful thing about replacing these bolts, is that the new ones will be Stainless steel and last a whole lot longer. Take It's about time 5.9+ for example. It was bolted 12 years ago and the bolts look brand new on it.

[theriault]

Good Initiative Dom,
I would add Leviathan (2 firts bolts)
this route gets gets its fair share of traffic!

[Adam]

agreed. i don't want to lead central scrutinizer till they're replaced lol. Stef has weakened them enough in the past few years

[Stef]

Yah, I logged more than my fair share of whippers on every one of those bolts. I bought some new hardware with the intention of re-bolting but haven't had the time. I am gone all summer but if anyone want those bolts for Central or any other route, you are welcome to them; otherwise I'll get to it in the fall. I also spoke to Karel and he had no problem with replacing the bolts on his routes in general.

I'd add the bolt anchor on the Sparky Start Ledge to that list as well.

[motanb]

I feel obliged to include 'grandpa's demise' located on Pooh's Corner. Those bolts are now nearly 20 years! Considering the beauty of the line this route deserves some retro-bolting tlc too.

[Burley]

I have a handful of hardward to donante to the cause... and some sweat equity I'm willing to part with.

[cory]

A big THANK YOU to Dom and Luc who bolted (with permission from the FAist) two existing TR's on Upper Tier, for which we will give them some time to get the FFA's: Stinky Bum and Flux Capacitor.

And a bigger THANK YOU for replacing the rusted bolts on Motezuma's, and Joint Venture, as well as installing a chain anchor on the latter.

[Adam]

wow awesome thanks guys!

[Dom]

As Cory has said, Luc and I bolted Stinky bum and Flux Capacitor. The first one we both got it clean but the 2nd one is def. harder than 5.11b and we'll need a little more time. I'll post about them in another thread.

Like you said, we rebolted Joint venture and added a chain anchor on the final ledge.
Montezuma's was rebolted by headlamp with the coyotes howling!

Also, We rebolted Shredded wheat (1bolt) and trouble with lichen.

We did our best to put the new bolt no further than 10cm away from the original but in a couple of cases we had to install them a little further as the original bolts were in hollow rock .
The old bolts were chopped and epoxy putty was used to cover them up.

The bolts on Trouble with lichen were nearly rusted through and were in pretty bad shape. On the other hand, the two bolts on Montezuma's were in relatively good shape considering they've been there for a while. Still pretty rusted up though.

So now that these routes all have bomb-proof bolts, nobody has an excuse to shy away from the dyno of Trouble with Lichen

[*Chris*]

Nice work Dom & Luc!

[rckclmr]

Boys and Girls I have some hangers I can donate.. just contact me.

rckclmr@nbnet.nb.ca

Robert

[Rob L]

I will pony up $$ for routes associated to my name if someone replaces them. Joint Venture, Rock Opera etc..
Let me know how many bolts were replaced, who did it and where to give the cash.

[Dom]

I will pony up $$ for routes associated to my name if someone replaces them. Joint Venture, Rock Opera etc..
Let me know how many bolts were replaced, who did it and where to give the cash.

Hi Rob L. great to see you want to get involved.
I got your email adress through Stacey and will be sending you a message shortly.

Also, SteveK has donated 20 bolts and hangers to the cause and Robert will be giving us some hangers.
Burley, we'll use you help and hardware anytime!

Thanks Guys!

Now let's go over the list again and see if any other routes are in dire need of bolt replacement.

-Leviathan
-Pursuit of hapiness (1 bolt)
-Waterfall arête
-Montezuma's rebolted
- Spiderman (1 bolt)
-Dykes on bikes (1 bolt)
-Rock Opera
-The Central Scrutinizer
-Perfect
-Shredded wheat (1 bolt) rebolted
-Joint venture rebolted, anchor added
-Witches
-Talamasca
-Be still my bleeding heart
-Tweety bird
-Taz
-Bugs Bunny
-Yosemite Sam
-Trouble with Lichen rebolted
-Farewell to arms
-The Juggler
-Grandpa's demise
-Spark start (anchor)

I feel another rebolting session is coming up. With all this rain it's not like we can climb anyways

[PeterA]

The anchors on Flight of the valkyries are lookin a bit rough

-PJ

[Dom]

Hey Pj, I had heard about the anchors of Flight of the valkyries beeing a little sketchy. Once the amphitheatre opens back up, I'll make sure to replace them as this route is definitely on my tick list.

As for anchors, there are a fair bunch of anchors that are looking rough in CL. I dunno what anchor set-up it is on FOTV, but a lot of routes have Metolius rap hangers. These hangers are made of 1018 mild steel and are NOT Stainless Steel. In a way, it's good as there was no mixing of SS with non-SS. but it means It's not only the expansion bolt that has been weakened by corrosion but also the hanger. So People be cautious when using these and make sure you rap. Lowering off them would be more dangerous and would fill your rope with rust. So if you climb with partners that continuously forget bringing their ATC, lend them yours! (Some people will know who I'm talking about, for others his name starts with Luc and finishes with Luc) hehehe

Routes that have these anchors:
Talamasca
Be still my bleeding heart
Witches
Sparky Start variation
Never ending story
Rock Opera
Sleeping beauty
Prob. more...

We will be replacing them with the standard fixe rap ring anchors. If you have some rap rings kicking around please consider donating them. They won't do no good collecting dust at home.


Right now we have 8 fixe rap rings so good for 4 anchors.

Also, The chain on the Joint venture tree is still there doing nothing so We'll go back up there to get it and use it as fixed gear on potential anchors...

[Adam]

i know it is standard practice in other regions, but at cochrane lane (and IMHO by extension every other cragg in NB) NO ONE should be lowering off the anchor's hangers/rap rings/chain/etc....

unless there are cold shuts on an anchor, rap off. this isnt' rumney where routes are too overhung to retrieve your gear/draws which necessitate lowering off the anchor direct.

[Dom]

i know it is standard practice in other regions, but at cochrane lane (and IMHO by extension every other cragg in NB) NO ONE should be lowering off the anchor's hangers/rap rings/chain/etc....

unless there are cold shuts on an anchor, rap off. this isnt' rumney where routes are too overhung to retrieve your gear/draws which necessitate lowering off the anchor direct.

Although I agree with you in theory, there are times when I lower off, even in CL. It's definitely much better for your rope to rap though. (won't run over edges, won't coil like mad)

BUT Lowering can be safer for a number of reasons.
1. In general, People in NB don't use a prusik or a firemen to rappel.
2. At the anchor, you don't have to undo your knot until your new knot is complete. see: http://www.petzl.com/files/all/en/activities/sport/tech-tips-sport-climbing_Catalog-2010.pdf (last page)

That beeing said, I reiterate that I agree that rappelling is the norm, lowering the exception. I think it's a judgement call and if you hesitate or have doubts then you should rap!

[Dom]

I rebolted Spiderman (1 bolt) and Sparky Start variation (1 bolt) yesterday.

I also, rebolted the anchor on sleeping beauty (installed fixe rap rings) and rebolted the last crux bolt. I will rebolt the rest of the route but I didn't have enough battery juice to finish it yesterday. Rob L. is sponsoring this route.

Also,

I'd add the bolt anchor on the Sparky Start Ledge to that list as well.

Which anchor do you mean Stef? I figure you meant the one on top of Never ending story? Anyways I led up Sparky start with the drill and everything, got to the nice convenient anchor Fred installed on top of Waterwalk and figured you meant the one for Never ending story so I traversed this slimy bushwack to get to it. Was I ever surpised to see that the anchor bolts are Stainless steel and are fine! On the other hand, the Metolius rap hangers are mild steel and with the mixing of metals they are already in bad shape. So I replaced the hangers with Fixe Rap rings. Now it's stainless bolts with stainless hangers+rings.

I took a bunch of pictures yesterday with my phone but I can't seem to find the attachment to plug it on my computer. When I do, I'll post pictures of the rebolting.

[Adam]

thanks for doing all this work Dom! would really be nice to see some non-'FA' people step up with some cash for this effort too!

[theriault]

would really be nice to see some non-'FA' people step up with some cash for this effort too!

+1

[Dom]

Random pic of the rebolting yesterday


More can be found here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/100687177024103660261/Rebolting


Disclaimer: This is not a guide on how to properly rebolt. It's just pictures...

Make sure to use the slideshow.

[anderfo]

PS. I noticed that you had to break the bolt to get rid of it.
Isn't it common to drill the hole deeper than the bolt, so that when you want to get rid of the bolt you can just knock it in until you don't see it any more?

[Dom]

PS. I noticed that you had to break the bolt to get rid of it.
Isn't it common to drill the hole deeper than the bolt, so that when you want to get rid of the bolt you can just knock it in until you don't see it any more?

Yes Anders. That is what I do when I bolt. In this specific case though, The metolius rap hangers used in conjunction with these bolts are so damn wide and as a result a lot of the bolt is sticking out. I figured the hole wasn't that deep so I didn't check. It seems like the end result is the same.

[*Chris*]

I'll add that the station at the top of Reindeerland is in terrible shape. The hangers are stainless and in good shape but the bolts and chain are badly corroded. I will commit to rebolting this station.

[*Chris*]

Recent efforts in bolting have started to catch up with the Rock & Ice club's drills. Both are out of commission. We're looking into repair costs but they could be down for a while. The club exec will have to decide on what to do when we hear on costs. I'd estimate they've be used for several hundred bolts in NB!

In the meantime, I'm wondering about who else has drilling capacity... and whether they're willing to lend equipment? I've got bits, studs, and hangers waiting to go!

[theriault]

Luc and I rebolted and added an anchor (2x maillon + 2x perma lockers) to Farewell to Arms

[martha]

I'll add that the station at the top of Reindeerland is in terrible shape. The hangers are stainless and in good shape but the bolts and chain are badly corroded. I will commit to rebolting this station.

I don't often have much to say on here anymore (*gasp*) but I will say that when the Reindeerland anchor gets replaced, Please PLEASE keep it on top of the block. Topping out Reindeerland and taking a moment on the 'best seat in the house' is probably the coolest thing about that route, and is certainly a right of passage for so many newcombers.

Thanks to all of you guys who have been putting in so much effort to keep Cochrane lane safe and clean. I'll be sure to get Fred to add some extra anchors/bolts on his next MEC order to donate to the cause.

[granite_grrl]

i know it is standard practice in other regions, but at cochrane lane (and IMHO by extension every other cragg in NB) NO ONE should be lowering off the anchor's hangers/rap rings/chain/etc....

unless there are cold shuts on an anchor, rap off. this isnt' rumney where routes are too overhung to retrieve your gear/draws which necessitate lowering off the anchor direct.

Although I agree with you in theory, there are times when I lower off, even in CL. It's definitely much better for your rope to rap though. (won't run over edges, won't coil like mad)

BUT Lowering can be safer for a number of reasons.
1. In general, People in NB don't use a prusik or a firemen to rappel.
2. At the anchor, you don't have to undo your knot until your new knot is complete. see: http://www.petzl.com/files/all/en/activities/sport/tech-tips-sport-climbing_Catalog-2010.pdf (last page)

That beeing said, I reiterate that I agree that rappelling is the norm, lowering the exception. I think it's a judgement call and if you hesitate or have doubts then you should rap!

When I was climbing a CL a couple of seasons ago rapping made sense to me, but this was because of the placement of the rap hangers, not the worry about the gear it's self. I was very surprised to hear it recommended that everyone always rap, even off the sport routes in the province (with what I would assume would be well placed rap hangers).

I think that Dom outlined it fairly well, I think that lowering is safer. Another safety reason is that you don't have to untie when you lower vs the whole process of setting up a rappel.

Of course one should always follow local practices when in a new area, and I always honour that, but if your concern is about wearing out hardware I think the point is moot (or it would take 40 years+ in your area before it might be a concern).

[granite_grrl]

I also wanted to tell you guys that it's pretty col that you're out there trying to update all your bolts to stainless. I've whipped on too many rusty bolts out in Ontario and there are a lot of road blocks in this province to getting them replaced. It's nice to see a community getting this done.

[*Chris*]

Of course one should always follow local practices when in a new area, and I always honour that, but if your concern is about wearing out hardware I think the point is moot (or it would take 40 years+ in your area before it might be a concern).

Agree 100%. I think our anchors would rust long before those huge stainless rings ever show wear from lowering. That said... I rap every time for fear of getting my knuckles rapped. FYI... more and more of the popular sport routes are getting perma-biners at the anchors. When they wear... they're easy to replace.