April Fools

[*Chris*]

Thought this was a great April fools joke:



Here's a hint... if there's any photoshopping in this image, it's that I digitally inserted Burley at the lead end of a rope. The bolts however, are real.

[Adam]

I'll bite.

I had not yet been up to see this bolt job with my own eyes. Those bolts are far too close to J'ai Vole ta Blonde.

Teenage Arete might be a great line (have not been on it), but it's definitely a squeeze job if this is where the protection must go. Hard to understand how these could be considered far enough away from the crack to be acceptable. IMHO, well... these should go.

Thoughts?

[cory]

like
like
like
like
like

[Stacey]

Great to see Burley back on the sharp end (even if it's to aid ).

[Fred]

who put climbing tape on the rock again?

[GKelly]

The bolts are an awfull eye-sore next to such a sweet crack. Havn't climbed the bolted line. Perhaps it's just that awsome that it had to be done.
Well done Fred. He shall never live that down.

[Nihoa]

i was just gonna post the other day asking what bolts were going to be fought over this season!

[Burley]

It was a tricky aid climb so I rapped it first to highlight (with tape) where the good bolts were. Red tape seemed like the only option. However, I later came to realize that the blinding reflection of the sun off the hangers was more than enough of a reminder of their location - my bad, but I did remove the tape... left some sticky residue... hope no one minds.

Nice line no matter how you climb it. My hands are way too soft and the rock was way too cold to be jamming anything but a cam in that crack.

Yes... I am back on the rock. I have 1/3 of a Burley to drop before we go away - no time to waste!

That picture is from two weekends ago and is eye witness to the seal being broken.

We got out yesterday as well - some wet sticky fingers aid action. We hammered in a few pins and broke off some key crimps with the hooks, but I'm confident the rock will heal itself and be just like it was before... won't it?

Great to be back in the saddle - I haven't really climbed since we got back from cap trinite. Not much looks different in Welsford - rock is still there. I was really hoping that something would come down to reveal a 200' splitter to the heavens, but it didn't happen

[Fred]

Glad to see you are back Burley!

Hope we'll see you, Rosie, and Emma out climbing lots this summer.

[Adam]

Still awaiting comment by the equipper(s)....? Do these really seem reasonable to you in retrospect? Easily just an arms length from a classic crack line in CL. How do these fit into the ethics so proclaimed last year/year before?

All I'm looking for is consistency... and am not seeing it.

[STeveA]

It was a tricky aid climb so I rapped it first to highlight (with tape) where the good bolts were. Red tape seemed like the only option. However, I later came to realize that the blinding reflection of the sun off the hangers was more than enough of a reminder of their location - my bad, but I did remove the tape... left some sticky residue... hope no one minds.

A historical note: The climb was originally an aid route before it was freed. The original name was 'Vagina'. Thats the route Burley climbed, not J'ai vole ta blonde.

[Burley]

Fun to free and fun to aid, but I have to admit that the bolts to make me a little sad.

[Jon Corey]

Took a little drive down to Welsford today. While hiking around I was pleasantly surprised to see the bolts have been removed from j'ai vole ta blonde.
I guess this means that the person who put them up finally realized how awful it was to put them so close to this beautiful gear eating
crack. Thanks for making the right ethical choice and removing this eye sore. Although placing those bolts so close to
this route was considered by many to be wrong at least you cleaned up your mess and didn't make other community members clean it up for you.
Again thank you. The right decision about this has finally been made.

[Jon Corey]

oops I meant to start that last post with I had a dream last night that I took a drive down to..........

[Leehammer]

I'm really confused....

[Adam]

bump.

so no comment from the equippers?

[STeveA]

bump.

so no comment from the equippers?

I assume that since this is a joke posting (April Fools) that you are not really looking for comments. Please let me know if I am mistaken!

[Adam]

I think there was unfortunate timing, and some sarcasm missed in that original post Steve

I'd like to hear your comments, yes. I thought it was you guys that placed these but wasn't sure. I don't feel like chopping them, but i do find their placements bothersome. too close to that crack... especially in light of bolting ethics spouted in the past couple years, esp regarding DDT.

[STeveA]

If you can reach those bolts from the crack then you are off route. I cannot imagine anyone actually using the bolts to protect J'ai Vole ta blonde. There is no conflict between the routes. On aid you can lean over and clip the bolts, but I cannot imagine anyone using them to protect the crack when free climbing it. If anyone was to touch those bolts I would be rather pivved.

[Matt Peck]

here we go again....

[Leehammer]

The guide book refers to a "bolt war" Are these the bolts that were replaced after the bolt war? They look like they've been there for a while.

[cory]

If you can reach those bolts from the crack then you are off route. I cannot imagine anyone actually using the bolts to protect J'ai Vole ta blonde. There is no conflict between the routes. On aid you can lean over and clip the bolts, but I cannot imagine anyone using them to protect the crack when free climbing it. If anyone was to touch those bolts I would be rather pivved.

Wasn't that the argument put forth for DDT?

[Adam]

Steve, you cannot just dismiss everyone else's opinions by saying 'There is no conflict between the routes'. We're all here, saying we see conflict. Obviously you disagree, but dismissing other people in this way is not very constructive.

The points stands that these bolts are as close (i think they're actually closer) to the crack on JVTB as the bolts on DDT were to SEE. Don't u you see the hypocrisy in this??

[Fred]

The guide book refers to a "bolt war" Are these the bolts that were replaced after the bolt war? They look like they've been there for a while.

I'm not getting in the middle of this one but just want to provide fact to Liam since his question was guidebook related.

It's my understanding these bolts were removed about a decade or more ago but the route was re-bolted again in the last couple years.

[Dom]

I clipped the bolt while free climbing JVTB two years ago.

http://www.climbeasterncanada.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4009&p=30061&hilit=j%27ai+vole+ta+blonde#p30061

Anyways, I will not post an opinion if the final bolt should be chopped or not because I have never gotten on Teenage arête and hate it when people comment on bolts in CL when they have never gotten on the route on lead. (see sticky fingers, DDT thread).

Now let's get back to the real issue here- let's all do the sun dance!!!

[Adam]

In spite of my action last year re: pyramid wall, I am not going to go and chop this route. I've got no desire to start a 'bolt war'.

Personally, I don't care if the bolts are too close... if TA is a distinct line then let people climb it, and let JVTB stay as is... What I am stirring the pot here for is to expose just how arbitrary some people's 'ethics' are when it comes to bolting routes. In one case (DDT) there was outcry, and yet the same situation here and there's nothing but defense for the bolts from those same people (thus far - some have not weighed in). Just hypocrisy IMHO and I've heard no argument that holds water to justify their placement.

I'd like to go climb DDT but with the bolts chopped I can't do this safely... just seems a waste since it was such a good new line. I really just can't stand inconsistency and hypocrisy.

[*Chris*]

I'd like to go climb DDT but with the bolts chopped I can't do this safely... just seems a waste since it was such a good new line. I really just can't stand inconsistency and hypocrisy.

DDT was a great addition. Probably the best multipitch line in NB.

[Dom]

In one case (DDT) there was outcry, and yet the same situation here and there's nothing but defense for the bolts from those same people (thus far - some have not weighed in). Just hypocrisy IMHO and I've heard no argument that holds water to justify their placement.

I'd like to go climb DDT but with the bolts chopped I can't do this safely... just seems a waste since it was such a good new line. I really just can't stand inconsistency and hypocrisy.

Hey Adam, Just wanna play devil's advocate here and say that on the DDT poll 21 out of 26 persons said to leave the bolts IN. IMO and 20 others, Fred should've left them in and unfortunately he did not. He did however encourage others to relocate them to resurect this awesome route. So, if there was an outcry, it was to leave the bolts in.

Also, I don't want to defend anyone here but the equipper of Teenage arête was not against the bolts of DDT. Here is what was said by him in the DDT thread.

Here's my 10 cents worth:

The opinion of every climber, whether they have been climbing for 1 or 35 years, is important and valid. However, established ethics are valid and should at least be understood. We had a European climber come to UNB a few years back and he was all set to paint the names of the routes at the base of the climbs. Luckily, we found out and explained the local ethics before it happened.

That being said, the local ethics are fluid and change over time. The first routes were established ground up. We never considered rapping down to clean or pre-inspect a route. This determined the local standards at the time. Then cleaning on rappel, using chalk, etc became common practice and was considered part of the local ethics. Then bolts started and these caused many arguments and chopping wars. However, times changed as did the ethics. I am glad that I started climbing when the sport was dangerous and that risk was part of the appeal. I now enjoy climbing save bolted routes as well as the trad climbs. I do feel sorry for those that missed the older days but such is progress. This is a long winded way of saying to Fred: "Don't chop the bolts yet." Lets have an open discussion and see what the local opinion is. It will take about 2 minutes to chop the bolts if that is the final solution, so there is no hurry.

I think the general consensus is that bolts for anchors are different than bolts used to protect a route. The 2 are different issues and should be discussed separately; this is certainly my opinion. There was never a local ethic to avoid bolts at anchors that I can remember, we simply never bothered with bolts if there was a tree because we were too cheap and lazy. I think the prevailing attitude around North America now is for bolt anchors instead of trees.

I believe that if an established trad route is affected by a new sport route, then the new route at the least deserves open discussion among the climbing community. If the trad route is a piece of sh*t then let it RIP and go with the new route. If the trad route is a well used classic then the new route goes. If you have to veer off one route to reach the other then there is room for discussion.

There is definitely a different opinion about the safety of climbing for today's climbers compared to the climbers from previous years, and this is the heart of the difference in opinions. Whether we like it or not, todays climbers want, and almost insist on, routes being safe. Respecting local ethics simply tries to balance this desire with the opportunity for everyone to still be able to enjoy the established routes in the manner in which they were established. If we don't try to maintain this, then we may as well add bolts to all routes and rename them.

I volunteer to climb all the new well bolted sport routes and then if we have to we can chop the bolts. I know this is a lot of work for me, but I am willing to make the sacrifice. Bolt away and then I will 'test' the routes.

Just thought I'd bring this up for those that never use the search engine. Peace!

[Adam]

Hey Adam, Just wanna play devil's advocate here and say that on the DDT poll 21 out of 26 persons said to leave the bolts IN. IMO and 20 others, Fred should've left them in and unfortunately he did not. He did however encourage others to relocate them to resurect this awesome route. So, if there was an outcry, it was to leave the bolts in.

...

Just thought I'd bring this up for those that never use the search engine. Peace!

Very good points Dom. I do not use the search engine apparently hehe. The outcry was initially *against* DDT's bolts. It was a response by the community that showed the support for them.

And I must correct myself (and my apologies to Steve for the assumption) - I guess the inconsistency in question isn't necessarily with the equipper in this case then, rather I wonder whether the people who were speaking out against DDT's bolts are also against TA's bolts...

[Fred]

I don't think you were that far off Adam just the wrong Adamson. Was it not PJ who re-bolted TA? I do remember PJ voicing his opinion "for" the removal of DDT bolts.

In the end it does not matter because I removed the DDT bolts after I re-evaluated the situation. If anyone is interested in replacing the bolts feel free but put your cup on. LOL

For the record, I don't have any enemies over any of this. To me, it's water under the bridge.