New Harness buckle designs - scary

[Andrew]

A friend was shopping for female harnesses for herself at MEC in HFX. When she brought one home, I noticed something very alarming.

I'm used to the main harness waist buckle being setup in such as way that you would need to manually double-back it. Thread through a buckle with two slits in it and then back through the opposite direction which on all harnesses I've owned, you will end up 'covering your danger'. Now I know there are some new harnesses with auto double-back, which is great if you like automatic things.

These new harness buckles, esp. for women's model harnesses, have two buckles slightly offset from each other and you thread the nylon webbing through it as it would be obvious (go look at pictures on MEC.ca, etc.). The problem is, if one should catch the buckle on somthing when falling, or even walking around the base of the cliff, the harness's waist buckle can easily allow full extension of the nylon webbing causing possible fall-out.

I'm hoping someone else knows what I'm talking about with these new buckles and can shed some factual insight. Are these harnesses all death traps? It scars the hell out of me.

I guess they are calling this the double buckle style; whereas the older style seems to be called the single buckle style. Some articles are saying that the single is better with regards to accidental slippage than the double buckle.

Please discuss.

[*Chris*]

Andrew,

These buckle types are in play on a great deal of popular harness models now and have been for several years (Petzl, Arcteryx, Wild Country, etc). If you consider the popularity of these brands and the time they've been around I'd suggest that they've likely seen thousands upon thousands of working hours in every condition imaginable. I'd suggest that if there were even a remote probability of them failing then simple random chance would suggest we'd have heard of many incidents by now. The fact that this just isn't the case suggests they work just fine. You can come to your own conclusion though.

Many people tie backup knots behind their figure 8 tie-in even though it's extremely improbable that a properly tied knot could work itself untied. If you were concerned about her harness it wouldn't be very hard to rig a similar backup. An overhand in the excess webbing would certainly prevent it slipping back through the buckle. That said, you won't find me doing that with mine.

Cheers

[Brian!]

I've had mine for the past year and it works fine. My only concern is that mine has a tendency to slowly loosen over time; similar to walking looser. It's not a big concern as a loose-ish harness is quite noticeable and it tightens fast and easy. That being said, I won't buy this style again for this reason, but it's more of an "annoying me" thing than a "fear for my life" thing.

I would be really impressed with the very specific and extremely unlikely scenario where the buckle would catch on something AND open up.

[Fred]

I also have one of these harnesses and I think it's great.

From what I've seen, those who's harnesses loosen are typicaly because they weren't tight enough to start with. Harnesses should be worn over the hips and tight, not hip hugging. If there is sufficient tension in the double buckle, it's much less likely to loosen.

[STeveA]

Andrew

The double buckle design has been around for well over a decade. Almost all of the club harnesses at the college use this design, and it is definately better than a single buckle for safety and ease of use. Unless your are referring to a new design, I would not worry about the buckles. I haven't had a harness with a single buckle for well over 6 years.

[Andrew]

I very much appreciate this useful discussion. Thank you everyone.

There are auto-double-back harnesses like the 'rentals' I remember NBCC-SJ Club having years ago (haven't even looked at them in years now), and they seemed safe and fine. I had no problem with them then and neither do I now. These new harnesses now though are not auto locking.

What she did to prevent accidental loosening was to thread a metal buckle onto the nylon waist system and thread the tail into it. This was it can't lift up and loosen. Need them for waist and legs, though, to be fully secure. That made me feel like it was a safe system at that point.

I've also seen a few harnesses that had a dual auto-locking buckle system where you would have a buckle to the left and right of your front and you could easily pull them tight. Those seemed fine; however, weird.

[granite_grrl]

I believe that industrial safety harness use a similar buckle design too.

[Fred]

which harness did she get Andrew so we know what we are talking about?

[Andrew]

Fred,

It was Black Diamond Lotus Women's.

Apparently VERY comfy and form fitting to a woman's shape much more than a unisex. Also the top lip doesn't dig into the back like some do.


Lotus

[Fred]

Looks the same as Petzl and Acteryx. I think it's fine. These harnesses area actually safer because you can't forget to double back.

[Stacey]

I have the petzl Luna (which looks very similiar) and I love it (for comfort and safety)

[Matt Peck]

Um Yeah. I've been using auto-back harnesses since they came out and I've never had a problem. So not an issue. The situation you're describing is pretty much impossible, it would mean loading the buckle in reverse while a weight is pulling in the direction of load, which keeps the former from happening. Not saying Impossible, but I can't forsee a situation where it would be.