Moderators: PeterA, chossmonkey, Stacey, Dom, granite_grrl, Greg, Joe
STeveA wrote:Regardless of what Jon climbs, in order to clip the bolt you actually have to avoid placing pro, use long slings, or add rope drag to the climb. the first bolt is too low for the actual route. There is no ground fall potential unless you do not place pro, and this can be said of every route in the world.
coryhal wrote:basically most of the saint john climbers, and several moncton climbers would like to see it removed. Ive seen several 5.10 climbers avoid that bolt.
coryhal wrote:basically most of the saint john climbers, and several moncton climbers would like to see it removed. Ive seen several 5.10 climbers avoid that bolt.
Adam wrote:The old bolt was below where the new 2nd bolt is. If there is that much gear on that section then chop both bolts
Dom wrote:coryhal wrote:basically most of the saint john climbers, and several moncton climbers would like to see it removed. Ive seen several 5.10 climbers avoid that bolt.
Moncton climbers? we need names here...
I know some that are glad there is 2 bolts there....
I also know some who would bolt all of Cochrane Lane...hehe crazy gumbies
I led Sticky Fingers when the old bolt was there and there was definitely groundfall potential...glad Adam retro-bolted it my 2cents. Everybody is entitled to its opinion though
STeveA wrote:Adam wrote:The old bolt was below where the new 2nd bolt is. If there is that much gear on that section then chop both bolts
I agree with Adam. Lets chop both bolts.
Paintings are restored all the time... the trick is to not change it's character. Please remember that Adam started all this by chopping an old rusted bolt and replacing it with a new one. That effort is something for which he should be thanked. That he replaced one bolt with two in quick succession was a judgement which I believe he made with safety in mind given the rock quality, and the potential for decking with a botched clip. I don't think he saw potential for bomber gear anywhere nearby (that now others are finding). If clipping two quick bolts down low on this line has seriously detracted from your experience than perhaps you can't see the forest for the trees.Greg H wrote:Imagine what would happen if the curator of the Louvre announced that he was going to make some ‘improvements’ to the Mona Lisa……..“You know I think that Leo missed a brush stroke here and maybe another there so I’ll just touch it up a bit to make it better…...”
The artist’s legacy should be preserved.
The rock is the canvas and the first ascensionist is the painter of the route. If you don’t like the Mona Lisa don’t look at it…..if you don’t like Don’s route with just one bolt - don’t climb it. Top rope it or lead it when you are ready.
STeveA wrote:The creator of this climb would not thank you for making his route safer.
*Chris* wrote:Paintings are restored all the time... the trick is to not change it's character. Please remember that Adam started all this by chopping an old rusted bolt and replacing it with a new one. That effort is something for which he should be thanked. That he replaced one bolt with two in quick succession was a judgement which I believe he made with safety in mind given the rock quality, and the potential for decking with a botched clip. I don't think he saw potential for bomber gear anywhere nearby (that now others are finding). If clipping two quick bolts down low on this line has seriously detracted from your experience than perhaps you can't see the forest for the trees.
I agree that there are very strong points to be made on both sides of this issue. Given the new info about the available gear and the view of the FA I'm not sure where I sit. I just wanted to raise the point that rusty bolt replacement is a valuable effort, which Adam volunteers his time and cash to do. I just can't rake a man through the coals for that kind of thing. I think it generally sends the wrong message.Greg H wrote:The issue is that the route has been altered beyond what the FA would likely have approved of. I doubt that someone who had a flair for spice would want to see his route have an extra bolt added to it.
Dom wrote:Maybe this could be used hehehe... http://vimeo.com/10674868
*Chris* wrote: I just wanted to raise the point that rusty bolt replacement is a valuable effort, which Adam volunteers his time and cash to do. I just can't rake a man through the coals for that kind of thing. I think it generally sends the wrong message.
GregH wrote:I haven't been on this site in ages..... since I no longer live in NB but I'm gonna pipe in anyway from the left coast because this hit a nerve. Who's the wuss that added a second bolt to Sticky Fingers? I'll back SteveA up on this. Don B would NOT approve. For those of us that knew Don we can speak for him because we climbed with him and knew his style. I'm proud to say I was good friend of Don's so I'll stand up for the way he climbed (even though sometimes it scared the absolute crap out of me). In that vein I'll stand up for the way he did the FA of Sticky Fingers. Just because someone has passed doesn't mean the style in which the FA was done shouldn't be protected!! FWIW I vividly remember a horizontal crack that takes perfect pro. BOMBER!! It's been like a 100 years since I've climbed the route but me being the weakling that I was (and still am), I sure as heck wouldn't have climbed it as many times as I did unless it was safe. It might be spicy but it is safe. Big deal. SteveA...... since I'm no longer a local I'll chop the bolt when I'm home this summer.... Hopefully someone will have got to it before me.
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