New Ice Climbing Area in Waterford

[Greg]

After a bit of tramping around we found another ravine in the Waterford area. No gps coordinates yet but here are some directions:

Follow the same directions for the Parlee Brook ice area (lower approach) but immediately after turning onto the Parlee Brook Rd. turn left onto the Glebe Road. Drive to the end of the ploughed section. Park and walk up the road (current logging activity until you reach the top of the hill). After cresting hill, continue downhill until you reach an intersection. Turn right onto a groomed snowmobile trail. After about 100 meters of walking downhill look for an opening in the woods and snowshoe trail on your left. Follow this trail for about 20 minutes (you should notice a valley and stream on your right for most of this trail) until it ends at a confluence. Follow the stream leading up the valley to the ravine. Travel time today was about 45 minutes on consolidated snow – no snowshoes required. As you enter the bottom of the ravine on your left you will see a bowl shaped area topped by a long row of hanging curtains and several pillars that have touched down. On the right hand side are some easier flows, shorter curtains and pillars.

1. The Cardinal’s Realm WI 4, 25 m. G. Hughes, A. Fougner, 13/03/2010 Easy climbing up low angle ice to the left side of a steep, sustained pillar. Fun climbing with pillar on right and hanging curtain on left with solid top out and tree anchor.

2. Central Pillar WI 3+, 25 m. G. Hughes, S. Couturier, 21/02/2010 Easy climbing up low angle ice to the right side of a large vertical pillar. Continue up pillar to solid top out and tree anchor.

3. Knight to Bishop WI 3, 20 m. G. Hughes, S. Couturier, 21/02/2010 Start at the base of the two tiered pillar on the upper right side of the ravine. 7 meter headwall followed by low angle section and 5 meter headwall. Tree anchor.

4. Holy Cow WI 3, 20 m. A. Fougner, G. Hughes, S. Couturier, 13/03/2010 On right hand side of ravine there is an obvious flowing waterfall (will be open or audible during ice season), the route begins just left of the base of the waterfall. Tree anchor.

5. Bleeding Deacons WI 2, 20 m. G. Hughes, S. Couturier, A. Fougner 13/03/2010 On the right hand side of ravine there is an obvious flowing waterfall (will be open or audible during ice season), the route begins just right of the base of the waterfall. Tree anchor.

That’s it for now. There are a few more lines to be had both in this ravine and in the surrounding area. Some would be easy and some would be SICK! We saw a few more today on the way out. It is late in the season but this location is still in fine shape and should remain that way for a while. Like Parlee, this ravine sees little if any direct sunlight and will maintain ice well.

[Stacey]

The first time Greg and I went into Glebe road, it was a snowy, blizzard-like day...today was beautiful, sunny day - which made the approach feel like a walk in the park.

[anderfo]

More photos here.

[Richard Eh!]

Nice work folks! Looks like a fun spot!

[theriault]

Good job guy's! Can't wait to try them out!!!

[climbnb]

Sorry guys but mostly everything in here has already been done. Darrell found this quite a few years ago and we've been in a couple of times. (I'm sure he's been in more) Normally there is too much snow in there to make it worth while. But it looks like you timed it right!
Dee

[Stacey]

Hey Dee... Can you post the details on the routes and FAs? thanks.

[Fred]

Is it just me or does anyone else get annoyed with these undocumented first ascents? If you don't care enough to take the time to document it, why take the time now, aside from just wanting to downplay someone else's achievements?

I can understand that some people prefer to climb for pure Zen ground-up without grades or documentation... but those people don't come back decades later to rain on someone else's parade.

Good job Stacey, Greg, and Anders. A great find and thank you for sharing it with the climbing community.

[Greg]

Sorry guys but mostly everything in here has already been done. Darrell found this quite a few years ago and we've been in a couple of times. (I'm sure he's been in more) Normally there is too much snow in there to make it worth while. But it looks like you timed it right!
Dee

Too bad nothing was documented before us. Sounds like someone missed the boat. This is a cool spot. It will be a great location for anyone who doesn’t lead and beginners as the routes are short and access to tr anchors is excellent. For folks looking for a something hard there are some spicier lines that will go at grade 5 and up. I am glad that we recorded, documented and provided directions for everyone to enjoy for years to come.

[anderfo]

Good job Stacey, Greg, and Anders. A great find and thank you for sharing it with the climbing community.

Don't give me any credit; I just tagged along with the kids. Thank you Greg & Stacey!

[Dom]

Is it just me or does anyone else get annoyed with these undocumented first ascents? If you don't care enough to take the time to document it, why take the time now, aside from just wanting to downplay someone else's achievements?

I can understand that some people prefer to climb for pure Zen ground-up without grades or documentation... but those people don't come back decades later to rain on someone else's parade.

Good job Stacey, Greg, and Anders. A great find and thank you for sharing it with the climbing community.

ditto Fred,

On another note, I can't beleive there is that much ice left after all the gorgeous weather we've had!!

It's incredible how we can climb good condition rock or good condition Ice at the same time of year!! Vive Le N-B!

[Fred]

Not to mention, was it snowing in those photos?

[anderfo]

The snowing photos were from Greg and Stacey's trip in February. It was sunny this weekend.
This is how Parlee looked like yesterday:
http://folk.ntnu.no/anderfo/pics/2010-0 ... e%20Brook/

[Stacey]

Not to mention, was it snowing in those photos?

Yup - the snowing / blizzardy pictures were from our alpine ascents in February ....

I could barely watch the lead (save for a few pictures) as the snow/wind were almost blinding...

though I think the 21st of Feb was when Dom was climbing in Hampton on rock

Vive NB for sure - -

[Dom]

though I think the 21st of Feb was when Dom was climbing in Hampton on rock

Vive NB for sure - -

Actually Stacey it was the 13th of Feb. that I climbed ice in the morning in Hampton, and Lunchbox shirtless in the afternoon.

[climbnb]

Is it just me or does anyone else get annoyed with these undocumented first ascents? If you don't care enough to take the time to document it, why take the time now, aside from just wanting to downplay someone else's achievements?

I can understand that some people prefer to climb for pure Zen ground-up without grades or documentation... but those people don't come back decades later to rain on someone else's parade.

Good job Stacey, Greg, and Anders. A great find and thank you for sharing it with the climbing community.

Who is the keeper of this said 'documentation' and when did this forum become Gospel??? I'm not sure about anyone else but before I explore an area I usually throw out a few questions to see if anyone has been there before. (if i really do care about getting a FA) But honestly, Fred is correct, it's not my thing and I really don't care about it. That's not why I climb.
Also, I can't think of a single person who actually reads/watches this forum that wouldn't have said the exact same thing if they had already climbed somewhere. So get over it and don't try to deny it because there is nothing that you could say to convince me otherwise.
I suppose, since I don't read a lot of ice guide books I can put my name on some climbs out west as well!?
Come on people, let's give this a bit of thought and everyone just chill.
It's just noted that this is not new to everyone and that it has been all climbed before and because it's not written in this forum that it hasn't. Does anyone really think that climbers who have been climbing in this area for upwards of 20+ years has not found this stuff?
NO ONE is trying to take away the work that Greg and company have done and no one is trying to 'hide' anything. In our humble opinions is was not worth sharing. Have at er'!

Dee

[Fred]

Who is the keeper of this said 'documentation' and when did this forum become Gospel???

A new ice guide was published just last year was it not? I don't see mention of these routes in there. If you wanted recognition for said routes, you know how to get in contact with Joe.

I suppose, since I don't read a lot of ice guide books I can put my name on some climbs out west as well!?

That makes no sense. We are talking about undocumented, this means they are not recorded in a guide.

Does anyone really think that climbers who have been climbing in this area for upwards of 20+ years has not found this stuff?

Since you bring it up.. this is my real beef with this issue. Contrary to what these veterans may think, there are many new areas and lines that have yet to be discovered. Sunnyside, Mt Misery, Cloudbase, Grand Manan, Kingston... the list goes on. These are just some of the new areas discovered recently. I'm tired of hearing blanket statements that everything has been climbed in New Brunswick at some point or another. That is far from the truth. In my opinion, we should be encouraging new prospectors to develop the areas NB has to offer, not down-playing their accomplishments.

NO ONE is trying to take away the work that Greg and company have done and no one is trying to 'hide' anything. In our humble opinions is was not worth sharing. Have at er'!

Obviously this was not your intent, but it was the result. If it was not worth sharing, why did you bring it up now? That was the original question.

[Joe]

Does all this also apply to bouldering? See "Boulder in Freddy. Is it done" - Sorry, the timing was too perfect, I couldn't resist.

As a guidebook author, sometimes I didn't include ice routes because of their lack of significances. For example Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum on the old THC near Kingsclear, Moss Glen Falls on Kingston Penn., and the various small ice falls behind Truancy Falls. Fred, as an author I'm sure you also made decisions to not include some small routes in your book. As I said before, it's a matter of significances. I don't think anyone expects a guidebook to be the total and complete documentation of every single little climb ever done.

Regarding Glebe Rd, yes Darrell Steele had climbed there years ago, but he didn't think it deserved mention in a guidebook, so he didn't bother documenting it. (I think it was filled with snow at the time.) But now Greg and Stacey have brought the area to our attention and have assigned names to lines, so it is officially documented.

My intention is to provide an annual "New Ice Routes Update" at the end of each season in which I will compile any and all new routes submitted to this forum. I have complete confidence that members of this forum will analyze the list and express opinion at the slightest sniff of controversy. Who woulda thunk there'd be so much politics in climbing?

[Fred]

Does all this also apply to bouldering? See "Boulder in Freddy. Is it done" - Sorry, the timing was too perfect, I couldn't resist.

The boulders are well documented in the movie as I mentioned. Also, we paint the names on the boulder problems around Freddy just to be sure. No joking.

[Shawn B]

Does all this also apply to bouldering? See "Boulder in Freddy. Is it done" - Sorry, the timing was too perfect, I couldn't resist.

As a guidebook author, sometimes I didn't include ice routes because of their lack of significances. For example Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum on the old THC near Kingsclear, Moss Glen Falls on Kingston Penn., and the various small ice falls behind Truancy Falls. Fred, as an author I'm sure you also made decisions to not include some small routes in your book. As I said before, it's a matter of significances. I don't think anyone expects a guidebook to be the total and complete documentation of every single little climb ever done.

Regarding Glebe Rd, yes Darrell Steele had climbed there years ago, but he didn't think it deserved mention in a guidebook, so he didn't bother documenting it. (I think it was filled with snow at the time.) But now Greg and Stacey have brought the area to our attention and have assigned names to lines, so it is officially documented.

My intention is to provide an annual "New Ice Routes Update" at the end of each season in which I will compile any and all new routes submitted to this forum. I have complete confidence that members of this forum will analyze the list and express opinion at the slightest sniff of controversy. Who woulda thunk there'd be so much politics in climbing?

Here...here. If only all posts were this well thought out, clear, concise, factual, POSITIVE & PRODUCTIVE. Joe K for president.

[Jordy]

Does all this also apply to bouldering? See "Boulder in Freddy. Is it done" - Sorry, the timing was too perfect, I couldn't resist.
....
My intention is to provide an annual "New Ice Routes Update" at the end of each season in which I will compile any and all new routes submitted to this forum. I have complete confidence that members of this forum will analyze the list and express opinion at the slightest sniff of controversy. Who woulda thunk there'd be so much politics in climbing?

Dang! Almost sounds like this topic is getting hostile. My intent on the "boulder in Freddy" post was curiosity and act of sharing. Hopefully it wont be misinterpreted as me thinking I was first.

The ice pics look great guys. It's always exciting to climb a route you haven't done before.
Shoutout to NB climbers and new route prospectors.

[Shawn B]

BTW before they get re-discovered there are two gullies further up past Parlee. Go past parlee ice climbs brook and follow the next drainage. Small flows in there as well. Gully dubbed "Darrell's Dream". No named climbs. Other gully is further up and was accessed from the upper approach. Turn left off snomo trail 33 past the blueberry barrens as per parlee approach. At next right turn, go straight and walk through clearcuts until you enter the woods and scramble/rap down into the gully. A fair number 20-40 foot climbs. Steve A had a name for the area but I can't remember it. Both areas have been climbed but climbs not documented due their significance...or lack thereof. Fun and pretty walks to explore for a day though.

[climbnb]

Who is the keeper of this said 'documentation' and when did this forum become Gospel???

A new ice guide was published just last year was it not? I don't see mention of these routes in there. If you wanted recognition for said routes, you know how to get in contact with Joe.

I suppose, since I don't read a lot of ice guide books I can put my name on some climbs out west as well!?

That makes no sense. We are talking about undocumented, this means they are not recorded in a guide.

Does anyone really think that climbers who have been climbing in this area for upwards of 20+ years has not found this stuff?

Since you bring it up.. this is my real beef with this issue. Contrary to what these veterans may think, there are many new areas and lines that have yet to be discovered. Sunnyside, Mt Misery, Cloudbase, Grand Manan, Kingston... the list goes on. These are just some of the new areas discovered recently. I'm tired of hearing blanket statements that everything has been climbed in New Brunswick at some point or another. That is far from the truth. In my opinion, we should be encouraging new prospectors to develop the areas NB has to offer, not down-playing their accomplishments.

NO ONE is trying to take away the work that Greg and company have done and no one is trying to 'hide' anything. In our humble opinions is was not worth sharing. Have at er'!

Obviously this was not your intent, but it was the result. If it was not worth sharing, why did you bring it up now? That was the original question.

Who the hell is this Joe character that everyone is talking about????

Oh, so you are just looking for an answer to a question Fred? Geez, I wish people were more specific about what I am allowed to say on this forum? I just need rules Fred, can you please post those? Also, remind me what the question is that I'm to answer. I forget now, can't see past all the beautiful flowers.....
)

[Fred]

Oh, so you are just looking for an answer to a question Fred? Geez, I wish people were more specific about what I am allowed to say on this forum? I just need rules Fred, can you please post those? Also, remind me what the question is that I'm to answer. I forget now, can't see past all the beautiful flowers.....
)

My question wasn't meant to be cryptic, sorry if it felt that way to you.

Simply put, you obviously had enough interest in it to post-up in here and on FB about this "new" area. Smells like claiming on something you already passed up is all...

My two cents.

peace

[Stacey]

Does anyone really think that climbers who have been climbing in this area for upwards of 20+ years has not found this stuff?
Dee

I believe that Mt. Misery was just 'discovered' in 2008 by one of those 'veteran' (20+ years of climbing) climbers....so this certainly lends itself to say that there are many other ice cliffs out there yet to be climbed or discovered.

Stace

PS - let's just all enjoy the climbing - we posted the directions so that others could enjoy what we had found....that is still our intent.

[martha]

I'm so glad I've mellowed. I sure would have had something to say about this shite back in the good ole' days!

[Greg]

As a guidebook author, sometimes I didn't include ice routes because of their lack of significances. For example Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum on the old THC near Kingsclear, Moss Glen Falls on Kingston Penn., and the various small ice falls behind Truancy Falls. Fred, as an author I'm sure you also made decisions to not include some small routes in your book. As I said before, it's a matter of significances. I don't think anyone expects a guidebook to be the total and complete documentation of every single little climb ever done.

This is a good point Joe but keep in mind that there are routes in the guide book as short as 4 meters and over a dozen that are less than 10 meters. I think almost anything in the Parlee area is worth mentioning. I am surprised that the routes surrounding Truancy have not been documented. They are as good or better than some routes in Parlee proper. There is also another flow above Truancy which would provide a multi pitch link up(something that is a rarity in this area). My understanding was that Denise and Darrell had some FA's in this ravine behind the cabin last season. I think they should be documented.

This whole area contains a good concentration of ice with reasonable access, it forms early and maintains itself until late in the season. The routes that are north facing will stay in for a while longer. Some folks have less interest in rock climbing and are looking to extend the ice season as long as possible. The Waterford area is the place for this. The only ice left in the province right now (that we know of) is in this area. It is also pretty rugged country. Travel in and around these hills is normally a slogfest in the winter months. If there is documentation people can be almost guaranteed to go ice climbing rather than walk around searching for stuff while carrying a heavy pack.

[anderfo]

This reminds me of the people that do inventions but don't tell anyone.
Say you invent the wheel, and you keep quiet about it until after another guy invents the wheel and everyone starts rolling on them. Do you then show up and tell them you invented it 50 years ago and want to patent it?
No, you cry because you forgot to tell people how to use wheels to make life easier. And if you are interested in money you go home and cry even more because you forgot to patent the wheel 50 years ago.

[Greg]

This reminds me of the people that do inventions but don't tell anyone.
Say you invent the wheel, and you keep quiet about it until after another guy invents the wheel and everyone starts rolling on them. Do you then show up and tell them you invented it 50 years ago and want to patent it?
No, you cry because you forgot to tell people how to use wheels to make life easier. And if you are interested in money you go home and cry even more because you forgot to patent the wheel 50 years ago.

[climbnb]

This reminds me of the people that do inventions but don't tell anyone.
Say you invent the wheel, and you keep quiet about it until after another guy invents the wheel and everyone starts rolling on them. Do you then show up and tell them you invented it 50 years ago and want to patent it?
No, you cry because you forgot to tell people how to use wheels to make life easier. And if you are interested in money you go home and cry even more because you forgot to patent the wheel 50 years ago.

It is you and Greg that are 'missing the boat' with comments like these.

FACT: I do NOT want to take any credit for FA's nor have my name documented in a book.
FACT: It was a simple comment to let you know that it has been climbed.
FACT: If I could take it back I would.
FACT: I've cooresponded with Greg and Stacey privately and it was agreed that this has been blown way out of proportion.
FACT: This again proves to me, and several others, how this forum is truly a complete waste of time. Everything always goes down hill and there is no positive outcome.
FACT: I would like my account deleted but there is no way that I can find to do it. Please do that for me asap.

Happy trails kids....