Jugging Fail

[*Chris*]

Yesterday I had an experience which exposed a flaw in my favourite system to jug a rope. Thought I’d share it. This may be old news to some more experienced folks… if so, my apologies.

Up until now I’ve been a big advocate of the 1 jug – 1 GriGri system. I sniped a picture from the internet since it does a much better job illustrating the set up than I ever could.

I think this rig has a couple of big advantages over the traditional 2 jug system:

1) It converts from going up to going down very quickly.

2) Rope gets pulled downward to capture progress, very ergonomic.

3) It doesn’t require a weighed rope. This lets it work quickly off the ground and continues to work smoothly after tying periodic backup knots.

4) The pulley re-direct coming from the GriGri provides for some mechanical advantage, making it easy to capture progress at times when standing in the aid ladders is awkward.

Yesterday, while cleaning a roof/overhang which I had just aided I exposed a huge problem which was new to me. As soon as the wall angle goes steeper than vertical, this system is pretty useless. I found two issues:

1) Moving the top jug past a piece – having to disassemble and reassemble the pulley from the backup biner on the top jug just to pass a piece adds considerable time / fumbling. This might not be a big deal on a single piece or two but on an overhanging pitch it’s a real speed killer. This gets worse the more overhanging it is (precisely when the torque on the top jug really makes you want to have the biner in the backup hole).

2) Capturing progress with GriGri – once you’ve got the top jug past your piece it becomes impossible to take in slack with the GriGri. On overhanging ground, The GriGri is going to be at least partially weighted which causes it’s cam to engage. As soon as it’s even slightly engaged, you can pull the pulley rope down as hard as you can and you won’t be feeding anything through that GriGri. You crank yourself up on the pulley but as soon as you let go you go crashing back to your low point. No progress capture at all. To get it to work you have to completely weight your top jug, feed a pile of slack into the GriGri, unclip & clean the piece, and then reel slack back in. Not efficient at all.

Luckily, I had somebody around to throw me up another jug when I ran into this. Overall, I still love this system for cleaning, bolting, and jugging <= 90 degree faces but for the overhanging stuff it quickly gets shut down.

Conclusion: I need to buy a gold (left hand) jug. Does anybody have one for sale?

[chossmonkey]

I always jug with one ascender and a grigri, but have never seen or used that set up. Looks interesting.

As to cleaning steep sections, I can normally clean decent sized roofs by just hanging on the rope with the grigri and then unclipping the piece from the rope much like if you were stripping a sport route while being lowered. For ginormas roofs, your best bet is to aid your way across on TR rather than trying to jug. It just won't work, even if you have two ascenders.

Have you tried search SuperTopo for some answers? I could be wrong but I'd bet you will find the same advise.

[*Chris*]

Nope... didn't look there but I'm not sure there's a right 'answer'... just sharing an experience. I did indeed switch to toprope aiding to clean the dead horizontal section of the route.

[*Chris*]

Oh... the system I use has minor mods to the one pictured above but the core components are the same (1 jug, 1 pulley redirect, 1 GriGri). What's different with regard to your set up?

[chossmonkey]

I don't use the pulley. I just pull the rope up and through the Grigri. I also don't normally attach the ascender to my harness with anything to cut down on the clusterfrig.

[Matt Peck]

I think I like Chris's setup better if only for the reason that attaching the ascender to your harness provides VALUABLE REDUNDANCY! Otherwise, grigri slips, Down you go. It's nice having a toothed and Friction device operating in concert here due to the possiblity of slippery ropes.

[*Chris*]

I can also imagine a scenario where either the GriGri slips, or you purposely lower a foot for some reason and are now in space out of reach of your ascender since it isn't attached to you. Not insurmountable but also not efficient. I have never found this a cluster since I girth the daisy through both tie-ins and the grigri is on the belay loop. The pulley is nice since I have girly muscles that don't like pulling rope upwards to take in slack.

[*Chris*]

I can also imagine a scenario where either the GriGri slips, or you purposely lower a foot for some reason and are now in space out of reach of your ascender since it isn't attached to you. Not insurmountable but also not efficient. I have never found this a cluster since I girth the daisy through both tie-ins and the grigri is on the belay loop. The pulley is nice since I have girly muscles that don't like pulling rope upwards to take in slack.

wait... forgot about the ladder... scratch that last post.

[granite_grrl]

I used chossy's setup quite a bit this summer when cleaning and putting up routes. I never experienced a problem with only being anchored into the grigri (no slipping, etc), but it's not a big deal to anchor into the ascender if that's your personal preference.

[Burley]

Regardless... tie back up knots to minimize the chance of death and rope getting caught (bring the rope up with you as you clean).

Personally I don't like the Gri Gri setup for jugging. I like two ascenders and adjustable aiders with adjustable daisies. I have cleaned lots while and the Gri Gri will get you out of some jams as it allows you to lower out more easily... so keep it on the aid rack for sure.

I would recommend to anyone considering aid or roped solo free to be sure to learn how to lower out.

[STeveA]

Try using an Ascendeur and a Shunt; Simple and quick. I would always clip the Ascendeur to my harness since this is a quick backup. It would be hard to explain why someone is lying dead on the ground when their Ascendeur is still happily clipped to the rope up on the cliff. It only takes an extra sling.

[Adam]

I would recommend to anyone considering aid or roped solo free to be sure to learn how to lower out.

easier than it sounds even if you've read up on it (as i found out on cap trinite). worth practicing.