stickey fingers

[Dom]

From what I remember the route goes straight up from the original bolt to a horizontal crack. Then you angle up and left to the vertical crack. I do not remember the bolt being off to the right of the route.

you're correct the bolt is not 'too the right', but if it were replaced any further right then it would start encroaching on mammalian.

the rock around the original bolt was suspect (well, kinda hollow sounding) on the left of the bolt and solid on the right. the two bolts now are in uber-solid rock.

So did you put the new bolts to the right of where the original bolt was? I could've swore they were now a little bit to the left of where the original one was when I saw them...

[Adam]

So did you put the new bolts to the right of where the original bolt was? I could've swore they were now a little bit to the left of where the original one was when I saw them...

you're correct, they're both left from the original...

[STeveA]

Since most people probably did not climb with Don, I thought you might appreciate seeing a photo of him. He put up a few classic lines in Welsford and provided a lot of entertainment when he was around.

[Adam]

Since most people probably did not climb with Don, I thought you might appreciate seeing a photo of him.

i do appreciate it actually. there are quite a few names in the guidebook i have no face to put to.

[Leehammer]

Adam,

was the primary reason for moving the bolt (and adding a new one) that the rock around the original was unsuitable, or that the new bolt locations would make the climb safer?

[martha]

Thank you Steve. This would be a nice pic for the next edition of the guidebook.

[Adam]

Adam,

was the primary reason for moving the bolt (and adding a new one) that the rock around the original was unsuitable, or that the new bolt locations would make the climb safer?

the rock to the right of the orig bolt was solid but encroaching on mammalian. the rock immediately left of the orig was hollow. so i either had to go up or down with a replacement. that was the reason for moving the bolt. the reason for adding a second one was for safety.

[cory]

That makes sense. If you cannot put it at the same height as the original bolt, two are likely to be necessary to maintain appropriate (safe) spacing between placements so that the likelihood of ground-fall, pendulum onto a ledge, or some other potentially injurious fall can be reduced. In this particular case, putting only one bolt (whether higher, lower, or in hollow rock) would have changed the flavour and made it more spicy than Don had intended. My 2 cents: If you've got no choice but to change the seasonings, best to err on the side of safety.
Ah crap, now I don't get a beer.

[Leehammer]

Yeah it seems reasonable, although that wasn't the way it was originally stated at the start of the thread...

Probably this issue:

So do 'ethics' say that if the FA is deceased or for some reason not able to be contacted...that routes should NEVER be altered?

correct.

Unacceptable.

is something we should decide on as a community though.

[Adam]

Yeah it seems reasonable, although that wasn't the way it was originally stated at the start of the thread...

Probably this issue:

is something we should decide on as a community though.

i agree that it should not be done without consulting some of the community but obviously we cannot ask everyone's opinions. one thing is for sure, i will never ask for permission/comments on this forum. it will most likely be in person, and ideally at the cliff where interested parties can actually see the decision in process and understand the reasoning behind it.

while i understand the desire to not alter existing routes, I think we all need to remember it's not just about our OWN ideals, it's about the community, and general safety. sticky fingers is not known as a 'death' route, especially considering there was a bolt in the original ascent, so i and many others feel its nature has been preserved. i'm not endorsing retrobolting to make everything uber safe, but rather when the time comes that bolts need to be replaced that we take everything into consideration. i didn't go up to the route w/ intentions of adding a bolt, but when present community members made the case for adding one, i listened and judged that it was a reasonable request.

anyway, you've all apparently passed on that round. why someone would pass up a free beer is beyond me.

[Stef]

You'll note I haven't said anything on-line. I'll be at the Garrison tonight to collect my beer. Pic's Bitter, full pint please

[Stacey]

Can I still have mine as I didn't really discuss the bolting, just ethics.

[Adam]

You'll note I haven't said anything on-line. I'll be at the Garrison tonight to collect my beer. Pic's Bitter, full pint please

heh, you should have come over and i'd have bought you one Stef.

Stacey, you made your bed.

[Stacey]

You'll note I haven't said anything on-line. I'll be at the Garrison tonight to collect my beer. Pic's Bitter, full pint please

heh, you should have come over and i'd have bought you one Stef.

Stacey, you made your bed.

dang - oh well - was worth a shot

[Burley]

Anyone see a red dog leash hanging in a tree?

What is done is done. There is a hole there now so no good enough reason to remove it that I can see.

I am assuming the new bolt is below the old one? I haven't seen it.

Would you deck clipping the old bolt? No. There is b-b-b-bomber gear that is well within reach. Before clipping the old bolt you could protect is well enough for sure... maybe required a quick down climb to pop the gear after clipping the bolt or a big reach. However, there was enough gear every time I was on this route to keep me off the deck.

If you don't want to climb that corner in fear of decking then you could start on MP up that beauty crack to the right of SF. Either way you start you would end up in the same stance before the bolt and still within reach of gear that would keep ya off the deck. This is the better alternative to adding a bolt in my opinion, but again what's done is done.

Adam,

As you know, you and I don't always agree... nor should we. This is not something I would have gave the yes vote on if put to a vote, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do... maybe it was. Maybe not the right thing for some (me), but some aren't always right.... I certainly know I'm not always right.

You made a decision backed by others that was in the interest of the safety of others. This was not done with any malicious intent/motives. You knew this would stir the pot, but you still did it and I know you didn't do it to stir the pot. I have to respect that. You're a friend and I understand why you did this.

Regardless of my opinion on this topic I hope you know whose side I'd be fighting on buddy.

Burley

[Adam]

"Burley".... hmmm the name rings a bell....

Would you deck clipping the old bolt?

yes, you would if you didn't move right and place gear on mammalian, and then you're not actually climbing sticky fingers. the last piece is at the roof, which when clipping the bolt is 2-3 feet below your feet (unless you're >6'6"). since you have to clip above your head you're pulling up lots of slack and so if you slipped while clipping it w/ slack out you'd most definitely deck.

I am assuming the new bolt is below the old one? I haven't seen it.

above and below, both left of original.

Regardless of my opinion on this topic I hope you know whose side I'd be fighting on buddy.

hmm.... still struggling to remember who this guy is... but i'm sure glad he's on my side!

[Burley]

Ha Ha... I'm still kickin'... bird season is over... time for Kirby to get fat and relax... time for me to get unfat with a haul bag and some aid.

Bahhh... not off route... everyone I've seen on that route steps right for a quick rest... A foot to the right and you're protecting it from above.... The crux(s)/fun is above that bolt any way... coulda saved ya 20 minutes and $6.

I don't think it is/was PG... for sure PG before we had small cams. I would say the only PG section was from the Bolt to the vertical crack... now you can toss 3 cams in if you bring small stuff.

Mammalian eats up gear too... small stuff and some creativity

[Stacey]

Ha Ha... I'm still kickin'... bird season is over... time for Kirby to get fat and relax... time for me to get unfat with a haul bag and some aid.

YIPPEE - -

AID training sessions coming up!!...

sweet..................

[anderfo]

Ha Ha... I'm still kickin'... bird season is over... time for Kirby to get fat and relax... time for me to get unfat with a haul bag and some aid.

YIPPEE - -

AID training sessions coming up!!...

sweet..................

haha
you could start aiding ice, it's pretty easy (just very cold)