New Mini-Guide - Kingston Cliff

[Fred]

Thanks to hard work by Greg Hughes and Stacey Couturier, NB climbers have another new crag to enjoy.

Check out http://www.beta-source.com for downloadable PDF mini-guide of Kingston Cliff. Guide by Greg Hughes.

[Adam]

looking forward to checking it out!

[cory]

It's nice. They put a LOT of work into it.

[Dom]

It's nice.

I agree. The rock seems to be the same type as in Hampton BUT it is much more solid. Furthermore, It might be possible to climb there in November because the sun hits the cliffs first thing in the morning so it warms up the rock a lot!!

good job Greg and Stacey!

[john]

I am excited to see this area, it has been 11 years since I first visited it looking for routes. I recall at the time finding a red rap sling near the right/central end of the cliff I remember thinking it was Joe's, not sure if it was.

What does the red color mean in the new topo?

[gwa]

Wow!
I was in the Kingston area today and stopped to check out the new crag...

Thanks all of you who helped develop this crag, especially Greg and Stacy.

I can't wait to climb there! Looking forward to some sunny sport climbing.

[Stacey]

Wow!
I was in the Kingston area today and stopped to check out the new crag...

Thanks all of you who helped develop this crag, especially Greg and Stacy.

I can't wait to climb there! Looking forward to some sunny sport climbing.

it's quite warm there when it's sunny - - will be a great November spot (I hope)
Stace

[Leehammer]

We had a great day at this new crag today. Thanks for all the work developing it!

[Leehammer]

For anyone who cares, I think that some of the grades are a little high at this crag.

I would say:
Awestruck - 5.6
Jester - 5.10d
Another Drumstick - 5.10a
Odysseus - 5.7
Medusa - 5.5 (awesome route!)

Jester is a tough one to grade... I was tall enough to hit the jug to the right of the second bolt while standing on the top of the big block at the bottom, which makes the bottom a lot easier. I could see that if you weren't tall enough to reach it, it could be a lot harder, there aren't a lot of good feet in between.

We also passed by the boulder, holy crap that thing is high! There could be some seriously hard high problems there!

Thanks again to Greg and Stacy...

[*Chris*]

Ptfff... I totally climbed all of these lines years ago and never bothered to document them. At the time I graded them all as 4th class scrambles... maybe a 5.1 in there somewhere. All bolts should be removed since I'm sure I saw an intermittent crack somewhere at that crag.

Kidding... can't wait to get there sometime!

[Greg]

For anyone who cares, I think that some of the grades are a little high at this crag.

I would say:
Awestruck - 5.6
Jester - 5.10d
Another Drumstick - 5.10a
Odysseus - 5.7
Medusa - 5.5 (awesome route!)

Jester is a tough one to grade... I was tall enough to hit the jug to the right of the second bolt while standing on the top of the big block at the bottom, which makes the bottom a lot easier. I could see that if you weren't tall enough to reach it, it could be a lot harder, there aren't a lot of good feet in between.

We also passed by the boulder, holy crap that thing is high! There could be some seriously hard high problems there!

Thanks again to Greg and Stacy...

I would agree with your thoughts on the grade for Medusa as it is very easy climbing albeit for the first 15 feet. There is maybe one 5.7 move down low but according to YDS that's how it should be graded (on the hardest move). That is the one route that most folks think is a little soft, however, the others have all been confirmed. Maybe your grading is off because of climbing too many old school CL routes like Whiter Shade of Pale a 5.6 that would be an 8 or 9 today.

Most folks who have climbed Jester grade it at 11 b/c.

Yeah the bouldering wall is really a short cliff (25 feet?) with some interesting looking stuff. I am going to try and bolt a line or two there this winter and leave them up for grabs as they will likely be beyond me. The walk to that cliff from the parking spot (abandoned driveway) is very short.

Thanks for you thoughts and kind words. I am glad you liked it.

[Greg]

Ptfff... I totally climbed all of these lines years ago and never bothered to document them. At the time I graded them all as 4th class scrambles... maybe a 5.1 in there somewhere. All bolts should be removed since I'm sure I saw an intermittent crack somewhere at that crag.
[/i] [/size]

[Leehammer]

Most folks who have climbed Jester grade it at 11 b/c.

Has anyone else climbed it who is over 5' 8" or so? I think height makes a huge difference on the bottom section. That's part of what makes grading routes impossible...

[david]

I would agree with Liam on Jester and most others. I was able to reach the jugs on the right without having to move my feet up pulling on the mono. The top part actually felt harder than the bottom to me. I also finished that route much faster (few tries) than other 11c's that I usually have to project for months.

I really enjoyed medusa and Err to the throne/French connection

Good work and many thanks

[Dom]

[quote="david"]I would agree with Liam on Jester and most others. I was able to reach the jugs on the right without having to move my feet up pulling on the mono. The top part actually felt harder than the bottom to me. I also finished that route much faster (few tries) than other 11c's that I usually have to project for months.

Then height definitely makes a difference... I thought the bottom crux went around 5.11a/b and I thought the top crux was 5.10c max...

I'm 5'9 and I definitely had to pull on the mono on the FFA onsight. Maybe you guys found new beta hehe

[Greg]

I would agree with Liam on Jester and most others. I was able to reach the jugs on the right without having to move my feet up pulling on the mono. The top part actually felt harder than the bottom to me. I also finished that route much faster (few tries) than other 11c's that I usually have to project for months.

Then height definitely makes a difference... I thought the bottom crux went around 5.11a/b and I thought the top crux was 5.10c max...

I'm 5'9 and I definitely had to pull on the mono on the FFA onsight. Maybe you guys found new beta hehe

The sentences in bold seem to conflict with each other

[Greg]

I would agree with Liam on Jester and most others. I was able to reach the jugs on the right without having to move my feet up pulling on the mono. The top part actually felt harder than the bottom to me. I also finished that route much faster (few tries) than other 11c's that I usually have to project for months.

Then height definitely makes a difference... I thought the bottom crux went around 5.11a/b and I thought the top crux was 5.10c max...

I'm 5'9 and I definitely had to pull on the mono on the FFA onsight. Maybe you guys found new beta hehe

The original intention of this line was to go straight up the face below the tuning fork spruce. Did you guys get off route to the right of the bolts? It is certainly easier that way. I would not agree that up the face is 5.10 climbing.

[Dom]

Greg you misinterpreted what I wrote... I tryed to quote David saying he felt the top crux was harder and I failed and then I wrote that I felt that the bottom crux was harder(5.11a/b) for me.

maybe these guys are each 6'2 or maybe they went a little too much to the right because the face can't be 5.10 I agree

[david]

Yeah maybe that's the difference. We used the bigger holds that are about 2-2.5 feet to the right of the second bolt (slightly above the bolt), but that's as far right as we went. Without these, I can definitely see it being much much harder. Both of us being 6' might also contribute to the differences.

All that said, the route is a lot of fun

[martha]

Has anyone else climbed it who is over 5' 8" or so? I think height makes a huge difference on the bottom section. That's part of what makes grading routes impossible...

no matter how short, (or how many times I complain about it - LOL) There is always a way through a route and rarely is there more than a letter grade in difficulty. Having seconded Fred who has an Ape Index of +4 giving him a reach of 6'4" and me... who has an Ape index of Zero or less giving me an reach of 5'4", I have always managed to get up routes and on all the routes we've graded together we have pretty well thought to be the same.

[Leehammer]

The original intention of this line was to go straight up the face below the tuning fork spruce. Did you guys get off route to the right of the bolts? It is certainly easier that way. I would not agree that up the face is 5.10 climbing.

I looked at this for a while before I got on the route... so I think this probably accounts for the difference in grade, not the height thing.
I had my left hand on the face my right hand on the big jug to the right of the second bolt, and was able to very comfortably clip the bolt from that position. To climb just the face you would have to avoid that jug which is easily within arm's reach.

I would agree with your thoughts on the grade for Medusa as it is very easy climbing albeit for the first 15 feet. There is maybe one 5.7 move down low but according to YDS that's how it should be graded (on the hardest move). That is the one route that most folks think is a little soft, however, the others have all been confirmed. Maybe your grading is off because of climbing too many old school CL routes like Whiter Shade of Pale a 5.6 that would be an 8 or 9 today.

I agree with your logic, but I still think that the crux on the bottom is quite a lot easier than the crux on any 5.7 climb in NB that I have climbed. For example: Snakepeel, superstar, Aventure Pedestre, Miss Conception, to name a few.

[Leehammer]

I agree with your logic, but I still think that the crux on the bottom is quite a lot easier than the crux on any 5.7 climb in NB that I have climbed. For example: Snakepeel, superstar, Aventure Pedestre, Miss Conception, to name a few.

Obviously this is only my opinion. Feel free to completely disregard it

[Dom]

I had my left hand on the face my right hand on the big jug to the right of the second bolt, and was able to very comfortably clip the bolt from that position.

If you could clip from your stance then you were not off route... I guess you just had good beta

no matter how short, (or how many times I complain about it - LOL) There is always a way through a route and rarely is there more than a letter grade in difficulty.

The crux on this route is a one move wonder so if you can totally skip that move then the grade will be considerably easier than a letter grade.

[Greg]

The original intention of this line was to go straight up the face below the tuning fork spruce. Did you guys get off route to the right of the bolts? It is certainly easier that way. I would not agree that up the face is 5.10 climbing.

I looked at this for a while before I got on the route... so I think this probably accounts for the difference in grade, not the height thing.
I had my left hand on the face my right hand on the big jug to the right of the second bolt, and was able to very comfortably clip the bolt from that position. To climb just the face you would have to avoid that jug which is easily within arm's reach.

I would agree with your thoughts on the grade for Medusa as it is very easy climbing albeit for the first 15 feet. There is maybe one 5.7 move down low but according to YDS that's how it should be graded (on the hardest move). That is the one route that most folks think is a little soft, however, the others have all been confirmed. Maybe your grading is off because of climbing too many old school CL routes like Whiter Shade of Pale a 5.6 that would be an 8 or 9 today.

I agree with your logic, but I still think that the crux on the bottom is quite a lot easier than the crux on any 5.7 climb in NB that I have climbed. For example: Snakepeel, superstar, Aventure Pedestre, Miss Conception, to name a few.

When compared to those routes I think you are quite right. The grade on Medusa probably is a little soft. Cory Goodman thought it was 5.5 or 5.6.

Did you try the two routes on the left face of Medusa? They are unbolted tr's. The one up the middle of the face is likely the hardest route there.

[Greg]

Greg you misinterpreted what I wrote... I tryed to quote David saying he felt the top crux was harder and I failed and then I wrote that I felt that the bottom crux was harder(5.11a/b) for me.

Gotcha.

[Adam]

Greg you misinterpreted what I wrote... I tryed to quote David

quote fail!

[Dom]

Greg you misinterpreted what I wrote... I tryed to quote David

quote fail!

indeed

Hey how did you change your nickname from Trad_reborn to Adam...I tryed to change mine the other day but I also failed on that.

[Adam]

Greg you misinterpreted what I wrote... I tryed to quote David

quote fail!

indeed

Hey how did you change your nickname from Trad_reborn to Adam...I tryed to change mine the other day but I also failed on that.

hacked the system.

[Leehammer]

maybe you can change your picture too.

[Fred]

Great day in Kingston. Had lots of fun on these new routes. Kudos to the hard work you put in Greg and Stacey.

Grades were all pretty close. Some soft... some easy... It's the way she goes. I have yet to climb at a cliff that doesn't have ego boosters and crushers side by each.

Remember that route on Dog Wall in RR Greg? Jon C? LOL 5.10 impossible I think it was graded.

Nice work kids!!