Waterwalk

[*Chris*]

Thanks for putting in the effort to cleaning up this old line Fred. It was lead by almost everybody out today and all agree it is a nice crack. A real cache of burried treasure.

[martha]

Agreed! a fabulous Route. His hands and knuckles are bashed and swollen tonight, but worth the effort for sure!

Thanks!

[Fred]

My pleasure.

This is is a nice route that protects well all the way. A full pitch of nice crack climbing. Once I started unveiling what was underneath I knew I had to keep going. Spent the whole day cleaning this thing.

What are your thoughts for a bolt anchor on this ledge? It would service Waterwalk, Sparky, Astroboy, and Trundling.

[Adam]

I too had a blast on this route actually getting to sink some jams. Thanks Fred.

re: anchor

i used astroboy's anchor and found it fine. placed a piece high enough to protect the second up to the traverse. If the routes start getting a tonne more traffic and people are jostling for the one anchor i'd say yes, but until then the astroboy one should suffice IMHO

[*Chris*]

I did the same as Adam and had no issues. There is a long list of trade routes in Welsford that are in more dire need of a bolt anchor than this one.

[cough]
About a rope
Sweet potato pie
Salt n' Pepper
etc., etc., etc.
[/cough]

[Stacey]

I can attest to the 'flith' he had to endure - - he was looking like a pretty seedy character when we saw him mid-afternoon on Sunday...

Great work Fred - - can't wait to get on it.

Stace

[Shawn B]

I think a bolt anchor would be a great addition. On the ledge to serve trundling, waterwalk, etc. like you say. The anchor for Astroboy is ok sometimes but it is quite often wet getting over to it. Plus it opens up that anchor for descending while others are belaying. Also a single bolt on what I think is Mantlepiece will lead to improved traffic on that route (left of sparky start/trundling). We really do need another anchor on that side of that wall. I vote go for it.

Fred...we are agreeing way too much lately. Lets get a good fight going, k?

[Fred]

Agreed on the bolt anchor Shawn. The one for Astroboy is really only usefull for rapping. Also note that the ledge received a Brazilian. No more grass or bushes. A bit of rain and she'll be smooth. The idea of the bolt anchor in this spot is that you can TR all three of these routes. Yes, it's only for convenience.

I'll think of something to get a spat going. For now, we'll have to agree Shawn.

[Stacey]

Also note that the ledge received a Brazilian. No more grass or bushes. A bit of rain and she'll be smooth.

ROFLMAO

[chossmonkey]

Once I started unveiling what was underneath I knew I had to keep going. Spent the whole day cleaning this thing.

Nice work Fred.

Hopefully people will do the small amounts of cleaning needed in the future to keep it from getting gacked up again. It seems people are afraid to pull weeds off established routes for some reason.

[cory]

Thank you for all the work Fred! It's a really nice line.

My 2 cents regarding another bolt anchor:
The original belay stance for Waterwalk is at 140', in the blocky section well above the nicely cleaned ledge and the Astroboy Direct anchor. Though this is likely where most will choose as the end of the first pitch, setting a natural anchor here or traversing to Astroboy are both simple options. As for the crowds (there was a lineup on Saturday!), they will dissipate and traffic congestion will not be a regular issue.

[Adam]

after seeing the line up there on saturday i change my vote. i think another anchor there would be good for the wall.

[Fred]

I'm probably going to put one in anyways. The one for Astroboy is in a bad spot. Ok for quick rap but terrible for belaying.

As far as other areas in higher "need".... you guys are welcome to em. I can't do all the clean-up and "repairs".

[Adam]

As far as other areas in higher "need".... you guys are welcome to em. I can't do all the clean-up and "repairs".

Bolts may not be expensive one at a time but they add up and it gets expensive to equip these cliffs. Admittedly, it is a labour of love, but it does get expensive and it definitely would be great if all the climbers who've never contributed to the 'infrastructure' somehow stepped up to start an 'anchor fund'. just an idea.

[*Chris*]

I'm probably going to put one in anyways. The one for Astroboy is in a bad spot. Ok for quick rap but terrible for belaying.

As far as other areas in higher "need".... you guys are welcome to em. I can't do all the clean-up and "repairs".

I've got enough hardware at my house to equip all the lines I mentioned above. I purchased the rap stations with the intent to do so. All lines which I've got interest in upgrading are currently tree anchors. I've been told by some folks not to proceed. The notion seems to be that it's somehow less intrusive to either A) use tat to prolong the life of the tree, or B) wait until the tree dies; then install the anchor.

For what it's worth I think that's beautiful flowers. I especially think it's beautiful flowers for those same folks not to object if a convenience anchor is installed on the ledge atop Waterwalk where gear potential exists simply to ease congestion and facilitate toproping. If I start a similar discussion for those other lines... I bet I wouldn't receive a warm reception.

In any event, great work on putting the time into this line Fred.

[Fred]

Sorry Chris. I realize my split-personality is sending conflicting messages. Cara will confirm that I should be medicated at times.

I'd say if you have a plan to improve the area you should go for it!! Don't stop to ask for an opinion. If there is one thing I've learned is that bolting and developing by committee will go nowhere except downhill. My opinion is to always use trees until they die and then use a bolt anchors but that is one thought from many out there. Don't take what I say for gospel, I'm certainly not a naturalist given the amount of steel I've put into the cliffs of New Brunswick over the years.

Hope there are no hard feelings.

Cheers

Fred

[martha]

Sorry Chris. I realize my split-personality is sending conflicting messages. Cara will confirm that I should be medicated at times.

at times?

....

I'm all for save a tree, ride the rap rings.... many of those routes that you have mentioned Chris do need anchors in my opinion. The only things is to not change the flavor of the top out of the climb because the anchor needs to be 10ft down the face or something.... so long as the 'route' remains in tact in terms of its way of climbing, then giver.

[Greg]

As far as other areas in higher "need".... you guys are welcome to em. I can't do all the clean-up and "repairs".

Bolts may not be expensive one at a time but they add up and it gets expensive to equip these cliffs. Admittedly, it is a labour of love, but it does get expensive and it definitely would be great if all the climbers who've never contributed to the 'infrastructure' somehow stepped up to start an 'anchor fund'. just an idea.

At $5 per bolt with hanger and $17 per two bolt rap station yeah it does get expensive. Anchor fund is a great idea.....doubt there will be any takers and the philanthropy will likely remain in the hands of the route developers.

[Shawn B]

Left side of the ledge would be perfect for the anchor. It stays mostly dry there whereas it is often wet and seeping to get over to Astroboy anchor. It will nicely serve 4-5 routes on the right side of Gallery Wall. Pink Stripe and Mantlepiece drastically need a cleaning too. I intended on doing it Sunday but was not feasable from the current anchor. Instead I unearthed what is soon to be another gem in hiding on the slab between Waterwalk and Boulevard. Will need a bolt or two depending on how the climbing goes. Rock is beautiful. Green moss...not so much...very stubborn stuff to scrub. I expect a solid 10 slab crux and a great crack section. Most of the major excavation is complete but still needs some more cleaning and scrubbing. Thor cut my cleaning efforts short but at least I didn't need a shower when I got home. All the thorn bushes on the big ledge at the start of Waterwalk are now gone. P2 of Waterwalk through the blocky section is very bushy but doesn't look as dirty as P1. Fred, I suggest work gloves to spare your knuckles when scrubbing.

[granite_grrl]

To Fred and Chris: I'm not opposed to killing trees at the top of the cliff if they promote water seepage or retain dirt that perpetually makes the route dirty. Otherwise, I think it's more of an eyesore to have a dying tree at the top of the cliff rather than a simple rap anchor. There is also the potential danger issue during the time where the tree is dying, especially early and late season where there might not be leaves to tell the health of the tree.

In the end I would rather not wait for trees to die so you can replace them with a rap station. If its a given that a rap station is eventually going to have to be installed, why not do it a little early and save the tree?

Chris: FWIW you're always going to get people who complain about your work when you put in bolts, and they'll usually be louder than the people who think you've done a good job. I got on all those routes that you mentioned when I was visiting last month. On the first two an anchor would be nice. For Salt 'n Pepper I thought it already had a shared anchor with 5.8 for Style, am I remembering wrong?

[Fred]

If its a given that a rap station is eventually going to have to be installed, why not do it a little early and save the tree?

Because 9 times out of 10 the trees that are dying in Welsford are a result of tramping the ground cover. Rap stations will not save the trees in that case. So since the tree is going to die anyways, why not prolong holes in the cliff.

[*Chris*]

Because 9 times out of 10 the trees that are dying in Welsford are a result of tramping the ground cover...

A valid hypothesis... but are you certain? Does bark abrasion/compression contribute to the accelerated rate of death? I don't believe there's a single known cause/effect mechanism... but it's a well documented fact in many areas that climbing/hiking leads to decline in exposed cliffside forests. I've observed evidence of this decline here and I suggest we take steps to mitigate/slow it before it happens. That, and I prefer rap anchors to tat from visual impact % safety perspectives.

Regardless I wholly agree that action by committee seldom goes anywhere. I'll try and make a goal of contributing to the anchor effort in the near future and do my share of the work.

@GG - You're correct about the shared anchor for those two lines. I haven't climbed either this year but have a note that I saw something up there that concerned me last year. I'll reclimb them and reassess.

[Fred]

Is there a real concern with losing a few trees on the cliffside? Yes I know that's a bit of a redneck attitude but realistically...

[Leehammer]

@GG - You're correct about the shared anchor for those two lines. I haven't climbed either this year but have a note that I saw something up there that concerned me last year. I'll reclimb them and reassess.

There's a piece of blue tat around a tree that looks a little suspect. I'm no expert though...
I also found that the natural place for the rope to fall is to the other side of the big block at the top. So you could be in for a bit of a swing if you fall on the last move on top rope, but you aren't really in danger...

[Jon Corey]

I feel this burning desire to get in on this. Wherever trees can be used they should be used. If you are worried about abrasion killing the tree. A simple solution is to hug that tree with chain covered in fire hose. The fire hose does at least 2 things. 1 it is used like a scarf to keep the tree warm 2 It helps the tree to not look like a thug. Drilling holes in the rock should be a last resort for bolt anchors. Some exceptions of course being places with very busy rap stations.
Old age, lightning, erosion, fire, elephants, furniture makers, large caliber rifles, agent orange and climbers will all contribute to killing trees.
I am taking this opportunity to announce to the community the emergence of my non profit organization. Our mandate is simple, save trees. All extra monies raised will go directly towards tree necklaces and scarves. Please purchase a tee shirt that reads "Save a tree Kill a climber" and show your support.

Thank you in advance.

Jonathan Corey

[STeveA]

I've got a T-shirt for you tree huggers:

[martha]

Thats an AWESOME shirt.

[jdhohmann]

That is the funniest thing I have seen in a long time from you Steve, give er' to them !!!!!!

[Shawn B]

Steve...you put on a few pounds in the last week.

[Stacey]

We got on this yesterday - - wow - what a stellar climb! Great work Fred...