New toys for 09-10 ice

[Matt Peck]

Anyone seen these yet: http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442630919&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302691749&bmUID=1250274755765

I've never really tried the helix, but always thought it would rack really oddly on your harness. This is taking it one step further. But kind of a good idea. I dunno, thoughts?

[chossmonkey]

Helixes don't rack terribly, but I don't think they rack that great either. Some people don't seem to mind.

Those seem like it could create a real cluster frig. I'll take a 360 and a draw over those any day.

[Matt Peck]

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/blog/index/view/slug/hydroforming-technology-video

The new Fusion axes at the end of this video look suspiciously like the Nomic. Just sayin. That hydroformed shaft is pretty, but....Nomic.

[PeterA]

Yeah, but the black diamond axes have cooler colours, and I think i speak for all of us when I say that climbing is first and foremost about looking good

-PJ

[Fred]

They look pretty sweet. I love the Nomics... my only beef with them is the handle is sized for a tinny frenchmen wearing leather gloves. Not ideal for arctic conditions with large gloves. The BD seemed to have much larger handles.

[chossmonkey]

Yeah, but the black diamond axes have cooler colours, and I think i speak for all of us when I say that climbing is first and foremost about looking good

-PJ

They also can have hammers.

[Matt Peck]

Here it is, and based on looks alone, I'd say the new fusion's got some thing's going right for it. http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/903763/Re_New_BD_Fusion
Clip in hole at the bottom, micro hammer head accessory, and fully vulcanized upper grip as opposed to flimsy grip tape. I'd say the folks at BD have fixed the small problems with the nomic. Might have to pick up one to finally able to have a hammer for those long alpine routes. I just hope it sticks ice better than its predecessor.

[granite_grrl]

I just hope it sticks ice better than its predecessor.

The old ones actually climbed ice quite well once you put hammers on them (which also made them more versatile than the Nomics when it came to mixed climbing too). You might also have to do the same with the new Fusions.

Fortunately these hammers are easy to pick up at MEC: http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442621882&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302691777&bmUID=1251736252497

[Matt Peck]

Having climbed on the fusions, even with a hammer on the end, I've got to disagree. Compaired to the Nomics, the old fusions were garbage on ice. They bounced, they shattered, they did everything but want to stick into the ice. They worked really well when I ran into some rock to pick on, however. That said, the Nomics did both with equal panache, and I think now that there's an ice specific pick for the nomics, they will be even better on water ice. As I said above, the only drawbacks to the nomics are the lack of a clip in point in the ferrule, and the lack of a hammer for pounding pins. The grip tape shreds easily, yes, but that said it is much more grippy than the rubber on the Fusions, which always felt slick-in-hand to me.
As for the main handle, Fred's hands are a little bigger than mine, and he would benefit from using the larger nomic grip option, which is just an allen key's turn away. Cept, they were my nomics, so I kept em tuned for me (sorry Fred, gonna score some new axes this year buddy?)
Im still keen to see what the new fusions turn out like. You have to admit the new geometry screams petzl. Even if it's a superior axe, those frenchies get props for getting it right first.

[Fred]

I can't believe what I'm hearing... Comparing the old Fusions with the Nomics!! Gasp. It's like comparing BMW and Ford Tempo IMO. I thought we were comparing Nomics with the "new" "potentially" better Fusions.

Matt, when you've lost your love for those tools, give me a call, I'll give them a new home.

[granite_grrl]

I can't believe what I'm hearing... Comparing the old Fusions with the Nomics!! Gasp. It's like comparing BMW and Ford Tempo IMO. I thought we were comparing Nomics with the "new" "potentially" better Fusions.

Matt, when you've lost your love for those tools, give me a call, I'll give them a new home.

Fred, this is where you're wrong. The Fusions and Nomics are two different tools with different strengths and weaknesses. It really depends on what you want to do with them and how they fit your style.

I've used both tools enough to say that I think the Fusions are better for pure drytoolings than the Nomics. I would also wonder if Matt would have the same problems with any BD tool in his hand that he's had with the Fusions. Both Nathan and I started on the old Vipers (which is where Nathan swipped the hammers for his Fusions). The progression from the Vipers to the Fusions felt quite natural.

I'll argue the Fusions, but in the end I do prefer the Nomics. They suit me better. I don't have a really strong swing so the super aggressive pic angle helps me quite a bit. I like the smaller handles too, but I'm under no delusion that they're the perfect tool.

[Stan]

Anybody tried Grivel Matrix Tech / Quantum Tech?
I'm curious how they work on waterfall ice...

[chossmonkey]

With the old Fusions there is a learning curve with the swing, they don't swing at all like old school tools which is why I think people have had so many problems. Hammers really help too. To me they climb ice as well as the Nomics and drytool better, and I can pound pins.

Oh, and I don't have to buy tool specific picks.

[mick]

Reusable screamers; anyone use either of these before? Do they work well?


Kong Kisa :


Cassin Shock Absorber:

[granite_grrl]

Reusable screamers; anyone use either of these before? Do they work well?


Kong Kisa :


Cassin Shock Absorber:

cassinsmall.jpg

Of course, I'd have to actually deploy a screamer first before I had to consider the non-reusable aspect (thankfully, I've never fallen on anything that I've felt the need to put a screamer on to).

[Matt Peck]

Yep. I've got a Cassin and It works as well as my other ones have. It's a little long, but not bad. Reusability is cool. only had a little fall on it, and it slipped just a little bit. nice alternative to ripping screamers. Bout the same weight too.
(somewhere Fred's chuckling, knowing that if SOMEONE in the maritimes would have the opportunity to test via whipper on ice, it would be me)

[Stacey]

Has anyone used/tried the Simone Coyote?

Stacey

[chossmonkey]

Reusable screamers; anyone use either of these before? Do they work well?


Kong Kisa :


Cassin Shock Absorber:

cassinsmall.jpg

I would be worried of those getting wet, then freezing and not working properly. Maybe it wouldn't be an issue?

[granite_grrl]

Reusable screamers; anyone use either of these before? Do they work well?


Kong Kisa :


Cassin Shock Absorber:

cassinsmall.jpg

I would be worried of those getting wet, then freezing and not working properly. Maybe it wouldn't be an issue?

I doubt it would be any worse than a screamer getting wet, then freezing. These might even work better when frozen.

[Fred]

somewhere Fred's chuckling

I was laughing before I got to reading the part about me laughing. I knew if someone had tested these it would be you Matt.

[Matt Peck]

They call me Whipor, tester of gear.
Stace; I got to use the Scud a while back, which was the direct predecessor of the Coyote. While I did like the cool gripping options that the handle of this axe gave me, (you can get a hands free armpit grab on the "joy knob" if you try hard enough (note: that's what Trango calls the "bulb")), I couldn't quite get into using it on water ice. It was a WEIRD swing. And the balance was kind of funky. Two other things were that the upper griprest was steel, which sucked the heat from my hands, and the pommel spike is VICIOUS, and it's looking you right in the face while you're dry tooling on those tiny edges. If you were keen on that style of tool, I'd suggest the Madame Hook by trango, I found the grip to be easier to hold, it's the same style overall, and the handle can be detached and converted to a classical style axe for those alpine days. It's a little heavier though.

[Stacey]

If you were keen on that style of tool, I'd suggest the Madame Hook by trango, I found the grip to be easier to hold, it's the same style overall, and the handle can be detached and converted to a classical style axe for those alpine days. It's a little heavier though.

Actually I really like the Reactors - - these Coyotes even look odd...wished someone had some (or these Madame Hooks you speak of) locally so I could give them a go this season before ordering new tools....

gotta sell my vipers too...

Stace

[Matt Peck]

The Reactors are really nice. Im a big fan. And Cheap too! Great all-around tools.

[Matt Peck]

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/climb/technical-ice-tools/fusion
And they're finally here, just in time for 09 ice.
Just a quick comment to Granite girl earlier, I had a pair of vipers for years before I got my nomics, so Im quite familiar with the BD tools. I thought that the vipers were fine axes, until you got really pumped, after which they started to suffer. They need a particular flick to the wrist, and don't have the "thank jebus" stick-ability when you're in a bad spot that the quarks do, but I still like em better. That said they were a superior tool to the fusions in all aspects but the most technical drytooling.
The new fusions look really good, and as predicted, they have just about all the tweeks that could have improved the Nomics. The new hammer looks really well integrated, but may be difficult to use at that angle (taking in to account that curved hammers are hard to use from the get go). And the grip taping looks sweet. The ferrule spike/clip in point is supposedly removable, which is also cool.
Really, the only things I don't like are the relative smoothness of the handle (no texture really) and the price.

[Matt Peck]

Europeans to the rescue! Just when I thought I was going to have to buy american to get the tool improvements that I wanted, Petzl comes through! Check out the new toys:
http://www.escaladequebec.com/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4887
And be sure to scroll down for further specs.

[Andrew]

Hmmm... this thread is fairly old.

Fred mentioned that he felt Nomics were awesome; however, his only gripe was that the handle was made for Frenchmen with skinny hands and small gloves (or similar).

I Just noticed on mine that you can adjust the pinky support for S, M, L hand on the grip. One must simply use an allen key / hex wrench to remove the screw and adjust it to your hand width. I have mine on medium as it came that way and I got used to it. Technically with my large winter mitts, Large would be better.

...gonna try the cascade picks next season. Might as well 'learn' on the picks that came with it. Learning to sharpen / file picks. LOL.