Guidebook Update in the Works - Questions for You!!

[chameleon]

Hello fellow posers!

I'm in the midst of compiling the long list of new routes put up since Nova Scotia Rock (NSR) was published back in 2002/2003. My plan is to have a pdf update file that people can download to supplement the printed guide. Probably will be a couple of months in the making. I'm looking for help with the following questions if you please. Also, if anyone has some photos that they would be willing to share (preferably new lines, but not necessarily), I'd love to see them.

Questions for Smiths.....
1) Nate: what does the Tam Lin mean?
2) Ben: I read on Punshon's website that you were the first to climb some unsavory corner out at Howe Crag. Was it the horribly green V-slot close to the right end of the crag? If not, where was it? Any name or grade for it Sharma?
3) Ben: There's a bolted crack line out at the Lower Railway Crag (right by the trail) called "Cowboys and Indians" - is it true that you soloed this route [or maybe just led it on gear] in your running shoes?
3) Kate: how do you put up with yer brothers?

Sean Kelly questions......
4) that "short and easy" route at the zoo....any idea of the grade? do you have new name or shall we stick with "short and easy" (I mean the route name - not like your name name!)
5) you took a brilliant photo of the wave wall that you had posted on your cape clear site for awhile. any chance I could get a hi-res copy of that (I have a low-res version now) to draw some route lines on?

Cape Clear questions......
6) Dave P: I remember you commented that the NSR road directions to the crag were somewhat inaccurate. Can you (or anyone else) offer better directions. I think your main issue was with the distance to the turn-off along the main dirt road??
7) Has anyone climbed Cory and Tom's route on the River Wall? They posted a picture showing the general location, but no name or grade? John B / Chris H, how far is the start of that route relative to "A-Sent From Heaven"?
Fred, what is it the status of the Annhilator Project? Is that an open project? From your photos it looks like 3(?) bolts went in on the bottom pitch so far...anymore, or does that need more equipping? What about the money pitch, are there any bolts on it? And finally what is the top anchor for that climb (bolts or trees?)
9) Sean T: Is there a bolted anchor at the top of "Are you Experienced?". If so, is it set back from the cliff edge like the set for "Feel the Love"?

Main Face sport route questions....
10) Keith: what's the dilly on "Skinny dipping"? date of FA? FA team? number of bolts? bolted anchor? It felt like around 5.11a to me - does that seem right?
11) Sean K/Conan: how many bolts are on "Deep Throat"? is the anchor bolted? I seem to remember that Sean K and I led that first (even prior to the bolts being tightened as I recall!!) - am I correct and was that around 2005 Sean? Of all the new routes, that's probably been climbed the most. Consensus grade anyone?? Fer now I'm calling it 5.8

Miscellaneous questions.......
12) Aidas: have you added any other bolted lines at Chebucto?
13) Columbus wall: Sean T put up an unfinished bolted project just right of "Sirens" on the upper tier --- anyone recall how many bolts on it? or better yet, has anyone freed it?

Thanks for any help you can provide.
Feel free to post up, PM, or email me

seancassidy
ns
sympatico
ca

Cheers!
S

[tracstarr]

Re: Skinny Dipping.

Originally shown to me by Sean K. I spent a day cleaning it and then 2 trips back to bolt it. It was on one of those bolting trips that while hanging up there and enjoying the late summer sun, I was witness to several ladies skinny dipping in the lake just below me. Some how they didn't notice me up there making all the noise with the drill. Thus the name.

There are 2 ring anchors just over the top. THere is a small group of trees that you can safety to to setup to rap down or setup on the anchors to rap off of. I think it's eight bolts total plus anchors. I'll have to check when the FA date was, but I believe I was with Jeremy H. Our consensus at the time was that it went at about 10d. I've not known anyone else to send it except you now. It was a redpoint as i spent a few goes on TR first. I'll get back to you on the date.

Here are some blog links I put up about it.
http://www.tracstarr.com/node/8
http://www.tracstarr.com/node/85

[Fred]

My memory is foggy but here is what I recall from Anihilator. It's an open project from my end but it's up to Jeremy H too. I don't think I'll ever make it back to Cape Clear.

Pitch 1 - 30 m
We started bolting ground-up lead and managed to place three bolts then drill died. Still needs bolts on this pitch. Finish at bolted rap station just below the monster headwall with the layback corner. Much nicer rock on the this pitch.

Pitch 2 - 30 m
From the slabs at the bolted rap station, a few bolts will be required to get past a 5.11/5.12? section to gain the layback corner (Trad 5.10+). Finish at another bolted rap station on the slabs above the vertical headwall. If rapping from top, this pitch is a rope stretcher. TIE KNOTS in the rope and watch that you don't lose your rope in space when you take the slack out and let it go. Decent rock on this pitch, not too crumbly.

Pitch 3 - 30 m
This pitch would be mostly traditional but I think we decided one spot might need a bolt to make it safer (not "R" that is). Finish at trees on top. Chossy crumbly pitch.

[Fred]

Also, Cara and I added two bolted anchors on top of Sandy Cove cliff on the Neck. We were projecting a couple routes. This was a few years ago. Again, these are open projects for whoever if feeling up to it.

[chameleon]

any pics Keith. Skinny Dipping is a great line. I joined a send train on it a couple of years ago...i think it was Scott R and Rich L who also lead it. Maybe they can weigh in on the grade too. That first 15' has some pretty small crimps on it!

thanks Fred. So the anchor above the 2nd pitch of Annihilator exists. When rapping from the very top, you just use the trees? How do you know where to drop in?

[Fred]

Yes, there are two bolted stations on the route, one near the lip of the headwall, and one on the slab below the headwall. If my memory serves me right, you use trees from the top. It's a bit of a guessing game but look for broken branches I guess. If you are in the general area I'm sure you can pendulum over to the anchor because it's slabby.

[Zamboni]

Deep throat has bolted anchors with rings, its between the last pitch of lunchbucket & Sleeper. 6 solid bolts and goes an easy 5.8, Crucks is right after the first bolt. I have a number of pictures from it, and skinny dipping, PM me you email address and i'll send them over.

Cb.

[Rich]

I thought 10d was an accurate grade for skinny dipping but admit I don't really know the difference between that and 11a. definately a good line though.

I believe the impressive "send in the rain with running sneakers" by Mr. Smizzle referred to the start of a uncompleted project (about 8 feet high) on the main wall of railway Crag (starts in easy bolted crack but aborted below blank wall above) and not the bolted lines on the wall by the trail.

[the kydd]

I would agree with Conan, I got on that line twice last year. No more difficult than 5.8.

[john]

Hi,

If you look at the two oldest cape clear trip reports coreys and mine there are 2 separate pics showingcoreys route alone and a pic I took showing both routes my pic shows the lower half of coreys route better.

I dont know at the ground exactly how far away the two starts are I am guessing 20ft. The two routes do not share any portion except the anchor on a tree with 2 slings at the top. Our route stays in the corner crack system the whole way coreys is left of it on the face and in another crack systme from what I recall.

Hope this helps.

One mystery I still do not know about was a purple rap sling I found near a route I did on the far left face of wave wall. it was obvious someone rapped from the top and came up short about 25ft from the ledge and left a sling to get down. I am curoius who?

john

[chameleon]

hey John!

i see the purple sling is still keeping you awake at night! it's not mine, but I have a strong suspicion that it was Steve Punshon's...I know he rapped that wall a few years back but was unimpressed with the rock quality. now if it was a rainbow coloured sling, it would probably be S.Kelly's!!!!!- just kidding sean...I'm trying to smoke you out.

i saw your and corey's pics, john. from the side angle i know where the lines go, but i'm having a hard time figuring out where it goes when looking from the front. can you pm your email address (or decode my address above) and I'll send you a jpg with my best guess on it. what about corey, is he around these days?

oh, and John what are your thoughts about "Good from far, far from good?" I looked at that line from the base and it would surprise me if it hadn't been climbed years ago. Any evidence en route? In the NSR guide I put in a vague description of a route in that general area based on, I believe, a phone conversation with Clarence Barrett (who climbed there in the 70s) - his memory was strained as it was a couple of decades since he was there, as I recall

cheers
sean

[Fred]

I don't have my guidebook so I'm going from memory but... isn't the route by Barrett on a spire downhill from "Good from Far, Far from Good"? I seem to recall a rock column sitting solo in the woods near the base of this route.

[Fred]

Sean, check out link below for my trip report. You'll see the description on how to locate the tree and also where the bolt anchors are located. Note that we recommend two rope rappel or single 70m.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=942


This photos from S. Kelley and marked-up by John Bowles probably shows the route and anchor locations most accurately.

[chameleon]

thanks Fred. so much potential there!!
that pillar route was listed in the guide as "Lost and Found" - put up by Daryl Burghardt and Cory Ziegler ( couple guys out of Antigonish as I recall- I think Daryl is a musician who teaches/taught at St.FX). chris hayes and eager climbed it again a year later and thought they were adding an FA. given it's popularity and relative ease as a climbing objective it's quite possible that clarence (or others) climbed it years ago, although he didn't mention it when i chatted with him.
sean

[aidasr]

Hey Sean,
I haven't bolted the other lines at chebucto but there atleast 3 more.
I've attached an image of the wall, the route on the left is high tide, 4 bolts, 2 anchors.
To the right of that is another route. same start as high tide, but instead of climbing the face, you climb to the right, following the juggy flake. It takes gear as well and can be done as a mixed line. Its around 5.8.
To the right of that is another line that I want to bolt, havent climbed it but it looks like its going to be pretty crimpy and fun. Im guessing in the 5.10 range.

then also, theres 2 more lines near Fynnished area.
If you facing finished- to the right is a crevasse. You scoot down there and theres a decent right leaning hand crack which can go on gear/ It wanders a bit so long slings might be useful. I got on it at the beginning of last year and it felt pretty hard, but im not much of a crack climber. Perhaps someone with more crack climbing prowess could give it a proper evaluation.
In the same gully, theres another line to the left of the crack that climbs a series of sloping incuts which feels pretty hard. maybe 10+/11-. This area is kinda sketch on lead since the gulley is only about 6-7ft wide..so falling away from the wall too much, will put you into the back wall.
Im going to try and get out when it warms up to finish bolting and get some better images of the routes.

[Rich]

A bit unrelated but probably an important thing to discuss considering the potential for future coastal development: how well do people suspect expansion bolts to fair in coastal environments (i.e. salt and corrosion)? Would it be best to use glue-ins for such future development?

[jeremy benjamin]

Re: Skinny Dipping.

...while hanging up there and enjoying the late summer sun, I was witness to several ladies skinny dipping in the lake just below me. Some how they didn't notice me up there making all the noise with the drill. Thus the name.

any pics Keith. Skinny Dipping is a great line.

Cassidy, to be clear, are you looking for pics of the route or pics of the skinny dipping ladies?

[Fred]

thanks Fred. so much potential there!!

Yeah. Too bad it's a choss pile.

[john]

HI,

My email is climb(at)unb.ca. email anytime

Good from far far from good is not clarence's route. I met with him at his park office in 2001 or 2002 and asked him about all the cape breton climbing and most specifically cape clear as I was on my way there.

He did a couple routes there, the closest one to the above route climbs a nearby corner. I pressed him for details but he could not recall a whole lot. I recall him saysing it was 40-60 ft quite easy and the approximate location. I remember looking on that trip or the next for his route and not being able to find it for sure, I found 2 corner systems in the area but could not tell which was it.

I bet clarence would be willing to go up there with a group for fun, he seemed like a nice guy and game for adventure. I am sure you know but there is a really old guidebook to climbing in cape breton, many of the route are on land that is now park or private and no information has been printed about it since. I think for historical reasons it should be kept track of despite this. There are still a few copies out there I think. Was it you or clarence I was talking to about this? I thought it may have been you?

Anhilator is worth doing despite what Fred will tell you I love the climbing there in CB. I have had trouble getting partners to return. The issue is the surface of most of the rock is crumbly, it would clean up with travel but those routes do not get any travel and likely won't. Too bad though.

There is another pinnacle we called Bowliger pinnacle which is free standing and really cool, we climbed it on the winter trip we hiked in on.

I would like to check out the cliff on the other side of the river, it is slabbier than it seems and dirtier from what I could see when I hiked in on that side but there are some lichen choked cracks which I bet would be great if cleaned, it just didn't seem worth it as I knew no one would climb it to keep the lichen off in the future, thats why wave wall is great cause there is nearly no cleaning. I would also like to check out second forks.

There is also a neat overhanging diagonal crack I found, way out of the way, near the top of the cliff on the far left side facing the cliff it looked great but needed a bit a cleaning and I was short on time.

The main wall has potential for lots of great routes, most will need some bolts which is why I focused more on wave wall. The good thing about wave wall is we installed enough rap stations to access most of the cliff for future parties and cut a clear trail to them. Hopefully some one will pick up the torch and do the same on main wall.

jb

[john]

On the photo fred posted above the is a faint dike on the right just to the left of the major crumbly dike. I looked at this but could not get an up close vantage of the whole route from the ground but it looked really neat for a future route

jb

[aidasr]

A bit unrelated but probably an important thing to discuss considering the potential for future coastal development: how well do people suspect expansion bolts to fair in coastal environments (i.e. salt and corrosion)? Would it be best to use glue-ins for such future development?

Hey rich, good point.
I was thinking of coating bolts in silicone or something of that nature. I think the only issue with glue-ins would be the margin of error being bigger.

[Fred]

Glue-in will not improve durability. Glue-ins are used in softer rock. My recommendation would be to use 304 stainless in all applications and 316 stainless if directly impacted by crashing surf (salt water). I don't think silicone will do much except goop-up the fixed pro.

my two cents

[chameleon]

Hey Aidas. Those gullies are cool eh? I love the Fynnished area....just seems so whacked. Any chance I can use that photo or perhaps a higher res version of it?

John, I'll email you that route photo tonite or tomorrow. Yeah, I checked out the old Cape Breton guide and included many routes from it in NSR. Trouble is, they're mostly super-choss. I kept some of them out (e.g., the Grande Falaise - which is apparently illegal to climb on and also the routes on that quarried cliff by the causeway)...but even the ones that are in the book sound pretty dismal. When I did the research, I checked out the guide at the St Mary's library in Halifax (should still be there) and called/emailed the author John Read, who was very helpful. I'm glad you confirmed Clarence didn't climb that crack. Just seems like one of the more obvious objectives there.

Fred, I would agree that Cape Clear has a pretty high choss factor but strangely I'm intrigued enough to return there again and again. The Annhilator project looks awesome and I really want to get on John and Becky's route, plus some more of the routes put up by John and the NB crew, and of course the Supah Heavy Duty pitch on "Feel the Love". Maybe we should all train for a spring assault of that place?

[peter]

Seeno:

You have Punshon's info on new routes and new areas?

Pytor

[chameleon]

yep-thx petah

[peter]

Did I mention that this climb rocks!!!!!!!! (The stick figure is not to scale.)

[chameleon]

Shouldn't you be off climbing some ice somewhere, Peat?

[peter]

Shouldn't you be off climbing some ice somewhere, Peat?

Are you saying I am all talk and no axeion?

[chossmonkey]

Yeah, I checked out the old Cape Breton guide and included many routes from it in NSR. Trouble is, they're mostly super-choss. I kept some of them out (e.g., the Grande Falaise - which is apparently illegal to climb on and also the routes on that quarried cliff by the causeway)...but even the ones that are in the book sound pretty dismal.

As a historical record all routes and crags really should be included whether they are climbable or not. They don't need much mention but just enough info so the history is not lost. It can also help out others who may be otherwise temped to climb there. If they know it is choss or closed then perhaps they can spend their time looking for better stuff?

[chameleon]

chossmonkey....champion of choss from coast to coast

you're probably right dude.
i chose/choose to leave out what I consider to be complete garbage areas
future authors can improve upon my style if they want
imo, the historical record still exists