I really suck

[david]

Hey everyone,

I’ve had some issues leading this year. I climb 3 letter grades harder than last year on TR after hundreds of gym hours. However, over the winter, I took a 20-25 feet ground-fall while clipping in Gagetown (I walked away without getting injured). My belayer (a super-experienced high 5.12 climber) just couldn’t catch me (I’m a big guy). This summer my confidence is gone. I bailed on 5.6 sport and almost freaked myself off the holds on a 5.3 trad lead. I used to jump on 5.11 sport and I’ve led 5.7 on gear before . This is very annoying and I’m wondering if anyone has gone through that kind of stuff before. I know it’s all psychological but I can’t get over it. Any help would be much appreciated.

A desperate climber

Sorry about being so pathetic

[martha]

It takes time to get back in the saddle after a big fall or an accident. There are lots on here who can attest to that. some who have had big falls and big injuries... Rebecca and Fred for two, and then lots of us who have gotten scared, or taken a decent whipper and had to back off for some time. My big thing was coming back to leading after having our daughter. Rock was no problem, I jumped back in the game, but Ice has never been the same. Don't know if it will. All I can do is wait and see what happens after this baby comes and hope for the best!

I say don't push yourself. Go and re-climb all the routes you are used to doing and that you are comfortable with and would lead/climb in your sleep. just getting mileage will bring it all back. Plus, the first few times out of the year are always hard on the head until we get used to being up on a rope again.

[STeveA]

David

The best advice is to relax and just get out climbing. If you can only manage a 5.3 lead then enjoy that. As you said it is a mental thing and if you worry too much about it things will probably get worse. In my 34 years of climbing i have experienced good and bad cycles, usually due to the death of a friend or a close call. Just keep climbing and enjoying it, and don't worry about the grades. As your confidence comes back the grades will increase. Make sure you milk the incident in the gym by making your belayer buy all the beer for as long as you can.

[Adam]

i'd say go back and get on lead on that route in gagetown and go bolt to bolt if you have to. i heard about your fall and wasn't sure how you could have had enough slack out. only thing i could see was if you were trying to clip the draw while it was still above you, and came off while you had lots of slack out. maybe i'm wrong tho, can you tell us what happened?

for future reference, clipping when the quickdraw is at your waist is a much better position to clip from. while it may seem like you're taking a risk by climbing higher above your last piece, unless you're on a jug you know you're not going to fall from, you're better off to climb until the draw is directly in front of you than to try to pull up enough slack and reach up above you to clip. you will pull up significantly less slack clipping at the waist, and you don't have to spend as much energy clipping b/c it's so much more accessible.

keep this in mind.

[chossmonkey]

I guess I still have a hard time equating how hard someone can climb with how well someone can belay. Just cause your buddy climbs 5.12 doesn't really mean he always gives a safe belay. My first ground fall I blew a clip from about the same height and my belayer was distracted and or holding the grigri improperly and I went straight to the ground. That doesn't change the fact that getting back into the saddle after a close call will be any easier.

If someone climbs long enough and has a small amount of self preservation instinct they will have times like you are having now. In my 14 years I've gone through it several times. After ripping three seemingly great cams and hitting the ground last Oct. I'm still having a hard time trusting cams.

Steve and Cara are right though. You just need to step it way back to the really easy stuff and harder routes you have done before. TRing hard routes then leading them can be good too. You need to learn to have fun while climbing again.

The Rock Warriors Way is a pretty good book and can be useful to help you work through the mind games.

[david]

Thanks for you advices. I guess I will just keep doing easy leads, relax and hopefully enjoy. I'll keep the harder stuff for top-ropes or boulders.

The fall resulted from a combination of several factors and we both learned quite a bit from it. I was already pumped and went for a last go. I tried clipping way above my head and it was one of those clip that just wouldn't go in. We were using a brand new skinnier rope. I fell during a moment of distraction from the belayer. Given that I am 40 pounds heavier than him, he couldn't catch me. He did slow me down and got some rope-burns but I still hit the ground.

Now I stop climbing when I am pumped. Clip at waist height when possible. After a few tries, if I can't get a clean clip, I grab the draw and clip it. I bought an ATC-guide and get my belayers to use the high friction mode on smaller ropes especially if the weight difference is important.

Thanks again

[Fred]

I climb 5.12... or at least I used to... and I'll be the first to admit that I'm a terrible belayer. hehe

[Adam]

Given that I am 40 pounds heavier than him, he couldn't catch me.

yah sounds like your belayer screwed up. 40 lbs isn't that much of a difference... ask erick and rosie your belayer should have caught you. maybe you had more slack out than you should have, but your belayer should have been aware of that and been ready to pull an extra couple feet in when you came off.

and while not your fault, if you're feeling unsure about your stance or ability to clip, let your belayer know they need to pay more attention to you.

but i really would suggest trying that route again before too long. even if it means getting to a bolt, clipping, hanging and resting, and then repeating the process at the next bolt. just to remind yourself that you *can* do it, just that your head isn't letting you.

GL and HF!

[Adam]

also, in a controlled environment get a belayer to catch you taking some short lead falls. reaffirm the idea that your belayer is going to catch you. if you can't trust your belayer get a new one lol

cheers!

[david]

Do you think the route will still be there??? kidding

[Adam]

i dunno they change the routes there pretty frequently... geologically speaking.

and btw, you don't suck (at least at climbing lol)... you just need to get back on the horse.

[martha]

yeah, 40lbs isn't that much of a weight difference. There is normally about 60lbs between Fred and I and although I sometimes go for some small air, I still provide a safe catch. Glad you learned some lessons with your fall. PUshing the limits in the gym is a different story than out on real rock where all the bolts aren't pre-clipped and 2 feet apart. Definitely clip at your waist, or from as good of a stance as possible and grab the draw when you need to. There is really no room for Pride in climbing. Pride doesn't do much for us if we are dead.

Hmm...maybe it isn't having babies that is messing with my lead head...it is my husband saying what an *Awesome* belayer he is......

I actually climbed harder than ever after Baby # 1.. so I'm hoping I can top that this time... Look out boys... Cara will be back on the scene! (And Fred the bad belayer can stay at home with the kids an equal number of days to what I have this spring..... You've all seen him out there 3 days a week!... looks like I'm going to have a GREAT fall climbing season!!!

[Burley]

David,

I heard all about this. I also witnessed another climber come 6" from the deck the next week while he and the belayer were doing everything right... sometimes holds spin while you have rope in your mouth and are about to clip. However, this other climber wasn't as high up as you... clipping the fourth bolt on the vert/roof wall or something.

Experienced hard climbers can suck at belaying and cause injuries. I have a lot to say on this matter, but Gagetown is where you should learn to lead and belay a leader. It is both the belayer and climbers responsibility to make sure the leader doesn't deck. If you think someone will deck if the don't make a clip and they want more rope and you don't think they have the juice to clip then you should tell them to down climb because they are not getting more rope. YOU have to make that call as the belayer in my opinion. Nothing wrong with hanging on a bolt to rest if the alternative is laying on the ground in pain or worse. I've given my partner a very hard time about belaying and now she is a well honed belay master. Too much slack or standing too far from the wall is as much the leaders fault as the belayers.

New rope isn't an excuse. 40 lbs is not an excuse. I've belayed and caught my buddy many times and he has about 30 lbs on me. I have a least 45lbs on my partner and she has never let me deck.... ever... not even close. I have swung into her twice, but that is it... and those were on tough moves around the 3rd or 4th bolts at Gage. I fall all the freaking time... like many times every night I'm there.

Meet us at Gage on Thursday and we'll get you back on the horse. Keep in mind you'll never get a good belay if you don't know how to give a good belay. I'll yell you into fine belayer form.

My email is burley dot erick at sunbury dot ca

[Matt Peck]

I have to second burley and adam here. new rope and 40 pounds isn't an excuse. Had your buddy locked off properly he would have just become airborne and not had any rope burns. That just points to negligence in my opinion. I find that you dont get slippage in your atc unless your lock off angle is extremely compromised, which I practice from time to time to give my leaders a softer catch, but I still find that I actively have to think about it to let it work properly, most often it simply locks and I get pulled into the air. You pal may have had trouble "holding you" if he were using a figure eight or a hip belay, but these kinds of problems shouldn't manifest in an ATC or GRI GRI if used properly. I'd send that 5.12er back to rock school, and get him to pay closer attention. Adam brings up a valid point RE clipping at your waist, but how many of us actually practice this?

Cheers.
Matthew.

[chossmonkey]

Adam brings up a valid point RE clipping at your waist, but how many of us actually practice this?

I would agree. Really the only time is if you are placing your own gear. Even then the only time I do that is on ice and on some cracks and it more of a ease of placement and use issue. Most bolted routes you would have to put on a really long draw unless all the holds are about the same size and difficulty to use.

[Adam]

Adam brings up a valid point RE clipping at your waist, but how many of us actually practice this?

i try to but yah it all depends on current conditions... if i'm on a jug, i'll clip as high as i can. if i'm on bad holds i'll try to keep moving. 'try' being the operative term lol

[Fred]

I agree. Climbing higher and clipping at waist is more safe but more committing at the same time. I seldom do this unless I'm on easy terrain. I guess I just don't feel comfortable doing it. Instead I tend to reach higher if needed from a good hold. Watch for spinners!! Important to note that I'll never yard rope out unless I'm 98% confident I can clip and if it starts to get pumpy I grab the draw and try later for the redpoint. But I'm a wuss. hehe

[granite_grrl]

Sounds like both you and you belayer screwed up. Though clipping higher than you should is a very common thing to do, whether you should or not. You belayer should not have been distracted though, not if you were obviously pumped and struggling with the clip. Though you could have helped him out by giving a good "watch me!" to the belayer.

Regardless, hopfully everyone around learned their lessons.

As for getting you head back, it is a fairly long process as most people have mentioned. How you go about it though is up to you. Personally I have always been a little chicken before my accident, so I had a loooonnnnnnggggg way to go after. My first step of getting back leading climbs where I *might* fall was to get on a climb that I've done a million times before, but I have also fallen safely on. That way when I started having those doubts in my head I could work on pushing them away know logically the fall was safe.

There has also been a lot of milliage on climbs I don't know, lots of hang dogging, lots of working routes to death before getting on lead with them, lots of first bolts stick clipped on easy ground, and being super duper picky about who I let belay me. But if you keep working on it you'll get back in the saddle.

[STeveA]

If you want to be safe use double ropes. Leave one clipped in at the last peice of pro and pull out slack from the other for the next clip. Then if you blow it you will not fall the extra distance. Takes a bit for the belayer to learn how to use double ropes, but I know from experience that it is the safest and most secure way to go. Also, the extra confidence from knowing that extra slack is not a problem helps mentally so you will be less likely to fall.

[PaulB]

If you want to be safe use double ropes. Leave one clipped in at the last peice of pro and pull out slack from the other for the next clip.

I've actually seen double ropes used on bolted routes at Skaha. Some guys on an alpine climbing road trip were there for a "rest" day and all they had were double ropes. They were getting a lot of funny looks as people walked by.

[chossmonkey]

If you want to be safe use double ropes. Leave one clipped in at the last peice of pro and pull out slack from the other for the next clip.

I've actually seen double ropes used on bolted routes at Skaha. Some guys on an alpine climbing road trip were there for a "rest" day and all they had were double ropes. They were getting a lot of funny looks as people walked by.

If they were from Calgary that was probably our friend Grant. He always uses doubles. I think Rebecca has done sport routes in the Red with him using doubles.

[granite_grrl]

If you want to be safe use double ropes. Leave one clipped in at the last peice of pro and pull out slack from the other for the next clip.

I've actually seen double ropes used on bolted routes at Skaha. Some guys on an alpine climbing road trip were there for a "rest" day and all they had were double ropes. They were getting a lot of funny looks as people walked by.

If they were from Calgary that was probably our friend Grant. He always uses doubles. I think Rebecca has done sport routes in the Red with him using doubles.

I actually haven't....but he has a very low limit for the number of bolts he'll pass in a day so I haven't done much sport climbing with him at all.

Oh, but he is the guy who dragged out his bigbros in Rumney to prove he could "place" them on a sport climb. Hung it from a bolt or something.