strata factor direct

[motanb]

A week prior, Cory R. and I climbed (yet again) 'strata factor direct'. It had been perhaps a season or two since I had last climbed the route. Cory led the well protected 1st pitch (G rated) and I led the well protected 2nd (also G rated). The climbing on this route combined with the 'exposure', steepness and relative length all combine to make this a truely remarkable climb (And a hanging-belay too!!).
The 2nd pitch does not have ANY risky run-outs. Regarding the last bolt before the top-out, in this section one can even place a bomber cam several feet after the bolt to make the final climbing a mere 8-10ft ascent to the top! Harmless;-)
My point is, I had soo much fun climbing this route I wanted to share my excitment and let everyone know that if they havent been on this climb before or if its been awhile... get on it this season and I guarantee you will not drive home disappointed.
Strata factor direct is likely 5.10+. Each pitch is mostly bolts with bomber pro where needed. Cams or nuts will do the trick. 60m rope will reach the ground from the 1st belay station.
Thomas

[Adam]

tom, it's strange that everyone else i have talked to about this route claims the opposite. also, i've heard that the last bolt is practically right next to a crack (maybe i'm exaggerating) but then it runs out for 10-15'...

but i'll have to reserve judgement until i lead it (upper pitch was wet last time we went up it).

... on another note, peer pressure is still an open project. i got the toprope ascent last weekend but just wasn't strong enough or warmed up enough yesterday to send. thanks for the patient belay norfolk.

[*Chris*]

Strata factor direct is a very nice line indeed although it's beyond my lead grade. My only advice is to not head out from the hanging belay towards pitch II as the sun sets... and if you do... have headlamps.

As for Peer Pressure... Adam is getting very close to having it in the bag. Anyone else involved in this foolish little kids race better set up to the plate soon.

Patient belaying is a virtue which I always strive for. After all, I'm not the speediest leader in the pack. I only start to gripe after 3 hours. Maybe after 2 in the winter.

[Fred]

I tend to agree with Adam on that one.

My thoughts are that Strata Factor is a superb route and I respect your style fully if this is the way you want the route to remain. Unfortunately it sees virtually NO ascents because of the top run-out. That is a fact and concensus from most climbers I talk to. With another bolt added, this route would be climbed all the time.

[motanb]

tom, it's strange that everyone else i have talked to about this route claims the opposite. also, i've heard that the last bolt is practically right next to a crack (maybe i'm exaggerating) but then it runs out for 10-15'...

but i'll have to reserve judgement until i lead it (upper pitch was wet last time we went up it).

... on another note, peer pressure is still an open project. i got the toprope ascent last weekend but just wasn't strong enough or warmed up enough yesterday to send. thanks for the patient belay norfolk.

this is true. the last bolt is placed by an awesome crack (it coulsd easily be taken off, but I am not gonna put in the labour to take it out.) Really though, that is a moot point because if ppl are not ascending it due to a percieved run out after this bolt, then perhaps this is the real issue. Like i said, there is another solid crack after the last bolt.. a BOMBER cam placement, from this point on it is literally 10ft to the top. Not only this (all bomber pro) but, the remaining climbing is 5.7?? Seriously! I have inspected this whole final sequence enough to understand its subtleties and potential consequences. I believe the issue reduces down to the perceived exposure. If one were to do the same final section as it currently is, but on a wall say like the right end of Joes, I'd wager many ppl would climb it and not declare a bolt is needed on the final 10ft 5.7 section. For this consideration and others I refuse to place another bolt.
Regardless of opinion, the climbing is great.
Cheers,
Thomas

[Fred]

As first ascentionist you do reserve the right to keep the climb to your style and I'm sure all climbers will respect that. I must say though that it's unfortunate because the line will inevitably continue to be un-climbed and as you mentioned... the climbing is great!

cheers

[motanb]

hence, my efforts to describe the 'benign' final section as it really is: benign. One more time: after clipping the final bolt, approx. 6ft higher is another solid- left to right- diagonal crack that will acccept bomber mid range cams, from then on it is literally 10ft of 5.7 climbing.Why do ppl avoid this??
Comparatively,there are sections on 'tele-funken' that require longer runouts on 'questionable' pro that make the strata factor final section seem a joke; yet many ppl willingly stroll up tele.hmmm. interesting.
I believe that strata factor is a harmless lead. If one has the ability to climb routes such as telefunk. and weeping whisker, then strata is well within their ability.
Is a 10ft runout really bold? Maybe when the exposure embellishes the perceived threat??
An interesting debate

[Adam]

well i am going to have to do this route sometime soon and form my own opinion!

[Shawn B]

I have inspected this whole final sequence enough to understand its subtleties and potential consequences.

Tom, perhaps thus the 5.7 rating and opinion? Perhaps a different perception done onsight or with limited experience on the route? I will agree with you for sure on one point is that the exposure is fabulous. While I have not led it, I do remember when I followed it once (I think with you actually) thinking I was rather glad I was not leading it. Now its been a number of years but I certainly remember the moves after the final bolt being considerably harder than 5.7. Steep vertical to slightly overhanging rock and sloping holds initially off the final bolt. The holds do get better the further out from the bolt you get from my recollection but its still pretty darn steep. I remember pump factor being very high.

It is definitely your call about bolt placement but I'm of the opinion if a route is of high quality it is a shame to have it not being climbed just due to the lack of protection. Birds of Fire on Minkey and Bone Machine on Joes come to mind as well. All the route will do is become overgrown with lichen and moss due to lack of traffic, which in turn makes it even less desireable to climb. I believe Steve A is retro-bolting Slippery for this very reason. Shame to see a quality piece of rock go unclimbed due to a protection rating. Remember most people don't view a 30 footer as an option when climbing. We climb for enjoyment and would prefer to continue climbing for enjoyment rather than being laid up for 3 months healing from a fall. And just telling others it is great won't lead to the route getting climbed more often. I think most already know it a good route and it isn't getting climbed. Just my .02.

[chossmonkey]

What is there to hit?

[Adam]

just the cliff lol

afaik not ground fall potential.

[motanb]

Hi Shawn,

Some inciteful clarification: the upper section does not breach beyond 90 degrees, therefore, not slightly over-hanging but slightly less than vertical is what you really meant.
Secondly, to suggest a 30ft fall is rather an amusing consideration; you must be considering the belayer having an excessive amount of slack out to inspire the leader (i think thats what you did with me that time we climbed it;-)). Have you seen what a 30ft fall looks like? I have several times. Does the possibility exist on the final section provided one placesa bomber cam after the final bolt? Unlikely. If it did occur, those ppl ought not to climb perhaps.
Thomas

[chossmonkey]

Secondly, to suggest a 30ft fall is rather an amusing consideration; ......

......Have you seen what a 30ft fall looks like? I have several times.

How was the three month recovery?






All joking aside, if the fall is clean and there are no ledges or slabs to hit whats the big deal about catching a little air? Personally I think a route that makes you think a little bit is far more memorable than a route that is an easy jaunt up.

[martha]

Personally I think a route that makes you think a little bit is far more memorable than a route that is an easy jaunt up.

And that is why we leave the route condition up to Thom as it is his route. I certainly don't go looking for routes to lead that have fall potential so they are more 'memorable'. I love to climb, but more than that I love to live and be a mom and be otherwise unharmed, so I go for well protected routes. Doesn't mean they aren't 'interesting' or don't make me 'think', just hopefully they won't maim or kill me if I and my belayer do everything properly.

[Shawn B]

I think most peoples attitude about climbing mirror Cara's. Even "safe" and well protected climbing still has considerable risk. There are a few that don't have that view and that is their choice. Remember there are old climbers and bold climbers, but no old bold climbers.

Tom, I can't speak specifically about Stratofactor Direct as it has been years since the one time I've done it. I don't specifically remember a bomber cam placement between the last bolt and the top and I don't think you used that placement when we climbed it together (but I do believe you it's there). I do know it is a good 15 feet from the last bolt to the top so if you didn't place that natural gear placement and fell at the top you actually be looking at more than a 30 foot fall.

You do realize that if you are 10 feet runout from your last gear you are looking at a fall length of pretty close to 30 feet considering rope stretch and slack within the system even with a good belay (it impossible to not have any slack unless your belayer has you so tight you can't move and your gear runs in a perfect straight line). That's how I came up with my amusing consideration.

Tom, I saw and heard one 30 footer. Don't care to see any more to be honest. And not something I think is necessarily a good quality in a climber. I'd sure call them a lucky climber if they walked away from a 30 footer.

Bottom line of this thread remember Tom is that you want people to climb Stratofactor Direct right? It hasn't been climbed much for a reason and won't get climbed much the way it is now.

[Fred]

Bottom line of this thread remember Tom is that you want people to climb Stratofactor Direct right? It hasn't been climbed much for a reason and won't get climbed much the way it is now.

dido

I'm struggling with the original intent of this thread started by Tom.

Tom enters inviting everyone to climb nice route.
Climbers respond with reason why they don't climb the route.
Tom shoots down reasons.
So then there should be no question why the route never gets climbed.

Similar effect for Bone Machine which I know Tom is familiar with...

[Adam]

i definitely appreciate Tom's enthusiasm, and hope that when i do get on the route that i agree with him. but yes, it *would* get more traffic if it had another piece of pro.

[granite_grrl]

Personally I think a route that makes you think a little bit is far more memorable than a route that is an easy jaunt up.

And that is why we leave the route condition up to Thom as it is his route. I certainly don't go looking for routes to lead that have fall potential so they are more 'memorable'. I love to climb, but more than that I love to live and be a mom and be otherwise unharmed, so I go for well protected routes. Doesn't mean they aren't 'interesting' or don't make me 'think', just hopefully they won't maim or kill me if I and my belayer do everything properly.

Every route has fall potential. The problem is when the fall potential is dangerous. A longer fall doesn't have to mean its a more dangerous fall. I think that's where you're getting confused.

[motanb]

Shawn, your nursery rhyme is amusing. It does have a nice rhyming scheme. It is a fallacy though. I don't think i need to explain it. I'll ask Royal what he thinks next time i bump into him
Being witness to several whippers is not a bad quality. It developes a good respect and sense of our sport to see these incredible falls.
I do not intend to "shoot" down other ppls opinions regarding the route, but I am only attempting to liberate misconceptions.
After clipping the final bolt on strata, climb through crux, grab huge flat holds, place bomber cam, climb (almost traversing) on huge holds to top buckets (10ft approx. from last cam) then clip into bolt anchors. WOW!!! That sure is death-defying climbing Thom! You sure are bold, I hope you get old...
As far as Bone Machine goes. Well, Zig placed bolts well apart from one another. I was flowering my pants when i climbed it the one and only one time a few years back. I'd gladly go up strata before i'd set foot on bone machine again. The two climbs are polar opposites of eachother.

[motanb]

Personally I think a route that makes you think a little bit is far more memorable than a route that is an easy jaunt up.

And that is why we leave the route condition up to Thom as it is his route. I certainly don't go looking for routes to lead that have fall potential so they are more 'memorable'. I love to climb, but more than that I love to live and be a mom and be otherwise unharmed, so I go for well protected routes. Doesn't mean they aren't 'interesting' or don't make me 'think', just hopefully they won't maim or kill me if I and my belayer do everything properly.

Every route has fall potential. The problem is when the fall potential is dangerous. A longer fall doesn't have to mean its a more dangerous fall. I think that's where you're getting confused.

Well put friend

[Adam]

Every route has fall potential. The problem is when the fall potential is dangerous. A longer fall doesn't have to mean its a more dangerous fall. I think that's where you're getting confused.

actually, everything else being equal, yes, a longer fall definitely does mean it is more dangerous simply due to the increased forces being applied to the protection. it obvioulsy doesn't mean it will result in injury, but it definitely means there is more risk involved.

[chossmonkey]

Every route has fall potential. The problem is when the fall potential is dangerous. A longer fall doesn't have to mean its a more dangerous fall. I think that's where you're getting confused.

actually, everything else being equal, yes, a longer fall definitely does mean it is more dangerous simply due to the increased forces being applied to the protection. it obvioulsy doesn't mean it will result in injury, but it definitely means there is more risk involved.

It can but FF matters way more than the length of the fall. A short fall can have much bigger forces on your anchor than a 30 footer. Truthfully, except for the time I hit the ground from 25', all of the 20'+ falls I've taken have been very soft catches. Yes, I have miraculously walked away from not one, but two 40' falls.



Nice try though.

[Burley]

My memory is Clear. I seconded Chris Hennigar on this route the season before last. The onsight by Heni went like this:

Pitch one - Wicked.
Pitch two - All good up to the bolt. Afer the bolt, no more gear was found between there and the anchor. If there is a cam after that he didn't find it. Then down climbed took on the bolt to be totally fresh for the final 15' with no gear. Not much traversing was done. Basically went direct from the bolt to the Anchor (slightly right trending). If he would have fallen toward the top (after pumpy moves) he would have taken a big fall. If there is cam placement it wasn't found.

I just got off the phone with him and we both agree that this route is very nice and would get done all of the time if there was one more bolt between the last one and the anchor. If you want it to be spicy its your call, but I won't do this route as it is today and Chris won't do it again either. If 5.10 is your limit on trad don't get on it. Like many, 5.10 is my upper limit and I won't get on it, but that is my decision.

[Adam]

Nice try though.

everything else being equal

i think you missed that part.

[Shawn B]

Shawn, your nursery rhyme is amusing.
not mine Tom...just quoting...sorry for omitting " "
It does have a nice rhyming scheme. It is a fallacy though. I don't think i need to explain it. I'll ask Royal what he thinks next time i bump into him
Being witness to several whippers is not a bad quality.
Didn't mean witnessing falls...just that I don't think taking multiple long falls is necessarily a good quality in a climber...at least a climber who wants to be healthy.
It developes a good respect and sense of our sport to see these incredible falls.
I do not intend to "shoot" down other ppls opinions regarding the route, but I am only attempting to liberate misconceptions.
Other people have their opinions, you have yours.
We respect yours. Please respect ours. Attempting to liberate is not respecting.
After clipping the final bolt on strata, climb through crux, grab huge flat holds, place bomber cam, climb (almost traversing) on huge holds to top buckets (10ft approx. from last cam) then clip into bolt anchors. WOW!!! That sure is death-defying climbing Thom! You sure are bold, I hope you get old...
Are you sure this is Tom writing this? It wreaks of attitude and I didn't think Tom was like that. Hopefully if it is really you Tom it is just the way it is coming across and not how you really mean it.
As far as Bone Machine goes. Well, Zig placed bolts well apart from one another. I was flowering my pants when i climbed it the one and only one time a few years back. I'd gladly go up strata before i'd set foot on bone machine again. The two climbs are polar opposites of eachother.

And can ggrl really say that a 40 foot fall on vertical rock is not more dangerous than a 10 footer?? Maybe on 20 degree+ overhanging rock you could argue this...maybe. A whole lot of things can happen during air time.

[Adam]

Are you sure this is Tom writing this? It wreaks of attitude and I didn't think Tom was like that. Hopefully if it is really you Tom it is just the way it is coming across and not how you really mean it.

shawn, it's just that Tom is getting jaded in his old age... i'm sure you can commiserate

[martha]

I think most peoples attitude about climbing mirror Cara's.

HOLY CRAP - Shawn and I agree on something! xoxoxo shawn...

Every route has fall potential. The problem is when the fall potential is dangerous. A longer fall doesn't have to mean its a more dangerous fall. I think that's where you're getting confused.

I am not confused... in a longer fall there is more time for other things to happen. On vertical rock or less than vertical rock (like Strata Factor), a longer fall means more speed by the time you come in contact with the rock, and you will contact the rock on vertical (or less) ground.. thus more potential for broken ankles, getting tangled in gear/ropes on the way down especially if the route traverses a bit etc. Overhanging routes are a different situation. And there are few of these in Welsford.

I've taken my share of short (10 ft or less) falls on Sport and a few on Trad. I don't mind them, but I'm one to down climb and take before falling. I see a fall as a 'mistake' to my climbing.. not me 'pushing my limits'. But that is me in my old age of motherhood. I can see the other points of view and respect them. They just aren't mine.

Climbing isn't 'my life' anymore. But a part of my life.

Tom started this thread to say how wicked the route is, and we all agree, but most of us also agree that perceived risk is part of our calculations when choosing routes to get on.

[Burley]

Tom,

If you want people to climb this route you should put another bolt on it. If you don't care if people climb it or what they think then leave it as is. It is your call and no one will argue with you on that. Wicked route and it is too bad it doesn't get more traffic over one bolt. If there is another cam not many people have found it.

Adam and I asked you and Cory about this very route last year and you said you wanted to keep as is because you liked the style. If that is the case just leave it be.

Personally, I'm stepping into the world of 5.10 trad and I have a list of things I want to do... This puppy ain't on it.

Possibly it is that 5.10 feels to you like 5.6 does to me? I have no idea. However, 80% of the folks that climb around here are working professionals and want to be able to walk into work come Monday.

If any of you wankers want to call me a Nancy because I say I don't want to risk a 30'+ fall then I would say you more than likely don't have anyone in your life that depends on your survival and/or mobility. Calculated risk is the name of the game... keep it safe.

[motanb]

Hey guys... I love you all..know that; my climbing sisters and brothers. Shawn, I am olny animating my discussion on this issue, meant merely for effect; I feel bad if you extrapolated 'attitude'. I am only jousting my thoughts with one and all. Please take no offence...anyone.
I enjoy discussing the perspectives of this conversation.
Eric!!! I am sooo insulted that you are not including strata on your tick list! Loser;-) JJ

[motanb]

Are you sure this is Tom writing this? It wreaks of attitude and I didn't think Tom was like that. Hopefully if it is really you Tom it is just the way it is coming across and not how you really mean it.

shawn, it's just that Tom is getting jaded in his old age... i'm sure you can commiserate

hahahahah... I can't believe i am an old fart now!!