Kit Kat 5.3 60'/N/T Gollum's Cave Area - requesting info

[Andrew]

Mike and I am interesting in leading Kit Kat... Anyone who's led it in the last few years... if they could let me know what the real YDS grade is on it? Is it really modern-day 5.3 or harder and how does it protect? Is it 'G' or PG, etc.

Andrew

[Matt Peck]

This choss heap is one of the more plausible 5.3-4's in welsford. It takes good medium to large pro, but is often dirty, slimy, and loose. The grade is about right, but the climb may be more committing due to aforementioned dirt, slime, and loseness. I recall it having a comfortable belay stance at the top. You probably won't kill yourself by hitting ledges if you fall, unlike most of the other easy "classics" of this grade.

[Fred]

doesn't the guidebook say 5.3 G and also give you all the other info you mentioned?

John and I climbed it this winter in our boots. The guidebook description is accurate.

[Andrew]

I'll have to look at the new guidebook. I was looking at the 2001 guide.

[martha]

Andrew, you lead 5.7 or 5.8 right? I wouldn't worry about it. I"m 7 months pregnant and I'd still lead Kit Kat, in my boots.... now only if I could get up the trail with a pack on my back..... hehe.

have fun climbing! must say I'm a bit jealous. I won't be out until close to Fall I'm sure!

Cheers.

[mathieu]

I was guided up this climb by some girl named Martha a few years back, top notch guiding, solid lead on her part. One of Welsford best easy routes. You could climb the whole thing with a handfull of hexes if I remember.

[Andrew]

Sounds fun then.

I hope I can still climb! I haven't been on rock or plastic since October!

[Burley]

Dude, it is 5.3. That's like...... no... I don't know what that is like, but... no... wait... I think I just peed myself a little.

Ok... I'm dry again and not bustin a gut.

Dude, it is 5.3. Get on it and cruise it with the confidence of a freaking gladiator. I'm sure you can run up a 5.3 off the couch.

If you don't then you need to start aid climbing and get confidence if your gear... or overconfidence... which would be bad. Either way it's going to help you lead head.

[Matt Peck]

Ditto man. 5.3. My grandma hikes 5.6. In her slippers. You should be able to kill it no prob. Then go send Adventure Pedestre.

[Burley]

Spot on big daddy! Adventure Pedestre should be on everyone's list if they haven't done it. Cool move x 2. But the walk up there... oh I'm lazy.

Andrew,
Jump on something doable that you know can be stitched up. If you feel the need to bail you can just walk around to the top and rap off to get your gear. If that isn't possible aid until you can free the rest. If you don't know how to aid you should learn... good skill to put in the old bag of tricks. Aid is one way to get more confidence in your pro (maybe even overconfidence). Everyone should trust their gear enough to lower off it or aid on it. Obviously if you are going to get lowered off it would be safest to plug in three and make a little anchor... remember.... Solid anchor, Redundant, Equalized, and No Extension.

[mathieu]

Forget the hexes, just bring some cow bells.

No offence but the only time asking for beta on a 5.3 is allowed is if the route looks like the ones below.

Assiniboine

Mt. Sir Donald NW Ridge. (Left Skyline)

[cory]

Beta, as requested:
Start with a good fist jam and an edge for your left foot, smearing your right against the tuft of dried grass.
Crank with a bit of a lieback off the jam and reach up to the ledge. Be sure to grab the rock, not the gravel or shurb.
Mantle.
The middle section has two or three options; the left arete is coolest, but the pro is better and rock more solid in the dihedral. The face between the two gets the worst of both worlds. Mantle ledge if you go left or traverse left to ledge if you go right.
The top section you're really better off running out the marginal pro and going straight up, but if you start to brown in your bermudas, move a bit the right to walk up a gully slope or to find a placement and traverse back.
Top out the massive ledge and take a few high steps on broken slab to the large incut dirt pad. BRing a long cordelette to tie off the enormous tree to belay the second.
To descend walk horizontally to the left 10' then down the trail to base of climb.
A tripple set of BD cams in the # .5-2 range, or a couple blue/black tricams and #8-10 nuts and 3 hexes should just about do it.

[martha]

Beta, as requested:
Start with a good fist jam and an edge for your left foot, smearing your right against the tuft of dried grass.
Crank with a bit of a lieback off the jam and reach up to the ledge. Be sure to grab the rock, not the gravel or shurb.
Mantle.
The middle section has two or three options; the left arete is coolest, but the pro is better and rock more solid in the dihedral. The face between the two gets the worst of both worlds. Mantle ledge if you go left or traverse left to ledge if you go right.
The top section you're really better off running out the marginal pro and going straight up, but if you start to brown in your bermudas, move a bit the right to walk up a gully slope or to find a placement and traverse back.
Top out the massive ledge and take a few high steps on broken slab to the large incut dirt pad. BRing a long cordelette to tie off the enormous tree to belay the second.
To descend walk horizontally to the left 10' then down the trail to base of climb.
A tripple set of BD cams in the # .5-2 range, or a couple blue/black tricams and #8-10 nuts and 3 hexes should just about do it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

Thanks for the laugh Cory. I nearly peed my pants.

[Burley]

Cory's reply = Burley peeing in his pantaloons again

[Andrew]

*** Paints a BIG HUGE RED TARGET ON CHEST ***


OUCH

I only asked for Beta because alot of the low difficulty rating routes are choss or they are old-school grades.

yes, I've led 5.7 trad and a couple 5.8 trad and a few sport... even a 5.9 and a 5.10 sport .... that wasn't the real intent... it was mainly is it choss, is it fun, does it protect well.

Sounds like it's worthy of climbing and its of easy difficulty even for a 'Grandma', can we all agree?

Haha.

I'm glad I could assist in a good laugh.

Andrew 'the target'

[martha]

I only asked for Beta because alot of the low difficulty rating routes are choss or they are old-school grades.

In the future, if it is 5.6 or under, you can be sure that it won't be harder than a 5.7... even for old school. And you lead that no problem at all.

[Andrew]

Thanks Cara!

Andrew

[Burley]

I'm sure if a route is a choss heap Fred would tell you in the guide... usually. The "G" should tell you there is some gear.

Get on er big fella!

[Fred]

I'm sure if a route is a choss heap Fred would tell you in the guide... usually. The "G" should tell you there is some gear.

dido

the guidebook, which I know you own Andrew, provides the accurate grade, adequacy of protection, quality of the route, and often sketch factor if required

[martha]

the guidebook, which I know you own Andrew, provides the accurate grade, adequacy of protection, quality of the route, and often sketch factor if required

With the exception of one particular route on Upper Tier...... A Mike Fellows special....

[Andrew]

I need someone to help me sort through my many boxes full of stuff so I can find the new guidebook. ARG!

*lol*

[jeremy]

i think thats the route we solo down climb when doing reindeer land

[Fred]

no. It's just left of the down solo scramble which I think is actually harder than Kit Kat.

[Adam]

DIDJA SEND!?!?!

[Shawn B]

no. It's just left of the down solo scramble which I think is actually harder than Kit Kat.

Hmmmm...why not just downclimb Reindeer Land itself??? You folks all climb 5.10 right? So you should be able to downclimb a soft 5.5.

But seriously, I think what comes off to me as elitist posts don't really serve any useful purpose. Would you give the same type of reply if someone was asking for beta on a 5.11? This is a public forum and you would think that it would be a good spot for beginners to ask questions. If I were a beginner and I read these replys, I know I wouldn't feel inclined to ask a question risking being made fun of.

And just to add how I remember not a whole long time ago a certain poster who replied above and who climbs kit kat in their boots (and who at the time could climb 5.10 or harder) wigged out on a 5.5 traderoute in North Conway on second. So just remember your past when posting and don't yourself or belittle what other people climb or how they climb.

[Matt Peck]

Ha HA! good call Shawn.
And apologies if needed.

[Andrew]

you guys are funny.

I don't take offense at anything on here anymore. I know it's just people who are really bored, really want to be climbing and not typing on a computer and are just chomping at the bit to type something

Have a break, have a Kit-Kat.

Andrew

[Burley]

You are right on with that statement Andrew.

We all like to give each other a hard time... I don't think anyone would do it to a beginner.

I pee my pants on anything that is run out or with crap gear.

[Fred]

If a guy walks out on the paintball field with a pink dress on it's hard not to open fire... Moraly yes you know you shouldn't but instinctively you just do.

[mathieu]

If a guy walks out on the paintball field with a pink dress on it's hard not to open fire...

Great analogy Fred, almost as good as "useless as an ashtray on a motorcycle".

Apologies to Andrew of course. If anybody is in Welsford in the next few weeks and sees a truck with Alberta plate, that would be me. I'll be easy to find on the cliff, just listen for the guy scared half way up a 5.6.

Later

Mathieu