Columbus bolt on Ronald McDonald Crack

[seanT]

to keep flogging a dead horse and just for poop and giggles..
If you were at a sport climbing area and were going to do a sport route that was bolted, but looked like it could take gear, would you A. clip the bolts and climb it "sport style" or B. only clip the bolts that were on totally unprotecable sections and use gear on the other sections(no matter how manky)
Steve this post does not apply to you because we know that you would not be caught dead at a sport climbing area.
Sean

[Scooter]

hell yeah i'd clip dem bolts

woooooooooooooha!

[john]

Would you screw your neighbors wife if you were gaurenteed not to get caught?

If you could steal from a friend with no way to get caught. Would you?

Just because the people are inherently lazy and sport climbing appeals to general sense of self preservation does mean its right?

I like bolts, but not on trad routes, its a slippery slope. hahhaahhh

[Scooter]

I think it comes down to what the individual feels, really, and you have to respect them all.

I would not bolt a crack, but if i seen one i would probably climb it
Others may refuse to climb it
Others may actually chop the bolts down
Others may climb it and skip the bolts
and so forth,

I believe Bolts were created to be placed where natural protection could not, and this allowed for individuals climb blank walls and really push their limits in a way that is relatively safe. Personally, trad climbers can have the cracks I'd rather climb a face any day.

I think people need to accept that their are different styles of climbing. face it. Trad climbers get the cracks, sport climbers can have the faces, boulders can have the pebbles.

If you prefer or excel at running a marathon, dont enter a frigging 100m dash! If you do, you will propbably become uncomfortable, nervous, scared and lose! Same goes for climbing.

Also, we need to face the facts that this issue is never going to be solved. I hope we are all just posting in a friendly manner because it is an interesting topic. For people to read these posts and start creating a hit list of enemies is just retarded.

[Scooter]

oh yeah, props to mixed climbers.They must be on everyones good side.

And ice climbers. They are really au'naturale!

[chameleon]

and nude ice climbers....it just doesn't get any better than that!!!

[Zamboni]

Chameleon, you just made my "Hit List"

[chossmonkey]

I think people need to accept that their are different styles of climbing. face it. Trad climbers get the cracks, sport climbers can have the faces, boulders can have the pebbles.

IMHO the best gear routes are the ones that climb faces and you have to put gear into the features on the face.

That being said I've bolted cracks. I think the rock and the availability of adequate good gear should dictate how they are protected.

oh yeah, props to mixed climbers.They must be on everyones good side.

And ice climbers. They are really au'naturale!

Scratchy, scratch, scratch!!!

[chameleon]

Chameleon, you just made my "Hit List"

The hit list for next year's risque calendar? Or are you an' Scott teaming up on me again?

[Scooter]

well...ah...um...you know....hmm... everythings relative?
I'm taking up swimming. Climbing has too much politics!!



Clam-eleon, the more the merrier!

[martha]

Fred and I climbed a sweet trad climb in spain that was completely bolted. It had knee bars, chimney moves, some butt scumms, some cracks, some stemming moves.. just about everything trad.. and it had bolts. It was a riot to climb and a stellar route. exposed, high and great climbing.

So.. yeah, we clipped the bolts on a trad route (mind you we didn't take any trad gear with us to spain)

However, when equipping a route, I believe that a bolt should only be placed where there is no gear available to keep the route safe. Safe for me means I wouldn't likely equip a route that end up being 'R' Rated. If I'm taking the time and the money to clean and put bolts on a route.. I"m gonna make it 'G'.

[seanT]

http://www.struttergear.com/WEB2_main_page_frames.html
check out the clucking vid.
NO BOLTS

[mick]

"Clucking, for me, is a way of getting closer to god"

[Zamboni]

Well that was a good way to kill the bolting issue!

[ben smith]

schnell schnell!
that clucking video was rad!!

[chameleon]

is it lonely in the library, Ben?

[motanb]

just bolt everything

[Adam]

just bolt everything

haha

[mike]

there is another option...

rather that having bolts left all over the place, and stir up debates like this one- why not just leave holes?

here's a product which would keep the rock looking basically pristine and untouched:

http://www.hilti.com/holcom/modules/prc ... OID=-11373

each climbing group would need to equip themselves with bag full of these and a ratchet. the anchors could be installed at the beginning of the session and removed before they leave.

Mike

[motanb]

I like the concept and agree with you but the probability of climbers buying the passives bolts and using them... probably not realistic. Unless climbers were legally prohibited from placing fixed bolts it wont happen unless the individual is over-zealously adamant.
I mean, really its just a bastardizeed form of trad/sport climbing; if one is going to go to the trouble of drilling a hole in the stone it logically follows that a permanent bolt be placed. Using passive bolts is not much different from trad climbing, and sport climbers "do not" want to "place" pro ie passive bolts, they want the bolt to be in situ. Its almost akin to drilling a hole only to make a "contrived crack" (albeit a hole). Why? Just seek out a true crack climb.
Perhaps camoflaged bolts are the way to go. It seems to work well; I've been in many a situation where i've over-looked camo'ed bolts. Not such an eye-sore.

[Zamboni]

Mike, I hope your just fishing! That was the stupidest thing I have ever heard! Where you drunk when you posted it.

[ben smith]

max 10kn shear strength, 5.9 kn tensile strength in uncracked concrete??

plus who wants to have a hex wrench on their rack

[Nate]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AJtVUQrS8fY

we could use skyhooks and sticky-tack

[mike]

No not really fishing- just giving another option.
Nova Scotia has limited climbing opportunities and people complain about either not enough bolts to learn to climb or too many bolts to climb ethically.

Beginners spend lots of time setting up top ropes. Perhaps the beginner+ group might wanna screw in a few bolts on the way down and pull the ropes?

Don't get me wrong- it's not my kinda thing- I'll stick to the climb it as the rock dictates theory- but some people might like it.

Ben: The Kn rating on these bolts is well in range for intermediate anchors. Belay anchors require a little more beef (like using 2 of these with a well angled sling). You'll find tensile stregnth (pull perpendicular to the surface- straight out) to be very low on most placed gear. Shear srtegnth (a pull parallel to the surface- as in a climber wiping out without leaping back away from the rock) on the largest nuts is 10.5Kn. That's 2310lbs in terms of weight. The only way to exceed those numbers is to take a fall heading closely towards factor 2 on low quality dynamic rope.

I would never suggest something unsafe- that would be crazy. Unmoral perhaps, unsafe, no.

Mike

[ben smith]

yeah- I know the shear strength is reasonable for runners, nuts being around 10kn, more worried about if the holes get bored out by use and the bolts start to loosen out especially on top rope anchors where you can't see them

[chossmonkey]

there is another option...

rather that having bolts left all over the place, and stir up debates like this one- why not just leave holes?

here's a product which would keep the rock looking basically pristine and untouched:

http://www.hilti.com/holcom/modules/prc ... OID=-11373

each climbing group would need to equip themselves with bag full of these and a ratchet. the anchors could be installed at the beginning of the session and removed before they leave.

Mike

That's a good idea but not overly practical. That type of anchor is made for concrete. You might be able to use it in sandstone or limestone, but after a few placements I would think the hole might start getting enlarged. I'm also not sure if you would be able to install them with a wrench at least when the hole is new. I've used them quite a bit in construction and we always used a big impact driver to put them in and take them out.

Fixe Triplex bolts are removable but they don't come out as easily as you would think. At least not in my experiences with them.

[the kydd]

I don't really know much about these bolts, but I would think that if you're going to drill holes you might as well leave bolts/hangers in the said holes (since the rock is going to be drilled, might as well make it accessible to everyone able to climb it, not just thoes carrying around certain removable bolts/hangers)... painted hangers would help with possible 'eye-sore' issues.. I also think that two-bolt anchors or rap hangers would be ideal... This would also help thoes wanting to set up equalized top rope stations...

Of course, none of this applies to protectable cracks.. cause there should be no metal anywhere close to these.. this shouldn't even be an argument.

[mike]

Just a thought.

I use them at work quite a bit- not for main anchors- but for deviations and lifting points for light weight stuff. I use a 3/8" drive ratchet to put them in and take them out.

Clients don't like anchors all over their walls either.

Mike

[john]

This is a funny topic which was beaten to death on a few other forums within the few last years. Removable bolts are hugely impractical for tons of reasons, but the primary one is searching for small holes on a long pitch is like finding a needle in a haystack in most rock types (with the exception of sandstone, which often they are obvious) its an exercise in frustration. People are lazy and would have to lead with bolts in their pockets or rap in and prepare the climb, the former which is hard on difficult routes, the later which is more work. Even if you could get people to use the method the holes do take abuse, with the in and out, and lead to the need for new holes. If you drill a hole you may as well leave a bolt.

I am not saying you should bolt cracks of course:) I think the ones on the crack should be chopped slippery slope though! hahahaha Who has the balls? You have to admire Sean for having fun and not caring about history of what anyone thinks, climbing is supposed to be fun right? Each to their own. But if someone bolted cracks as obvious as that at my home crag I would chop them hahhahahaha.

cheers

jb

[Zamboni]

I can't believe you guys are still talking about this. Mike only put this up for a joke ( I hope ) For all those who are thinking this is a serious topic, it isn't.

We can always count on mike for making this forum active when its not.

Cb.