damn!

[Adam]

http://www.drtopo.com/news/221/sonnie-t ... ew-project

i can barely grip my mouse my hands are sweating so much

[chossmonkey]

Still wouldn't catch me climbing on Aliens.

For what is worth, that route looked pretty much fully bolted except for one Alien when we were out there in July. It just seems like a bunch of propaganda. Unless the abandoned project with spiffy Petzl draws and a shiny new Alien was a different line.

[Ken P]

Screw what the gear is. Awesome climb!

[The Mitt]

Very nice climb. Still does not make me trust Aliens. Obvious commercial. Guess a you gotta get paid somehow.

Mitt

[granite_grrl]

I don't know, the video put a bad taste in my mouth .

But as Sean said, you gotta get paid somehow.

[Stevo]

Took a quick look at the video and web site but such a heavy dose of narcissism had me reaching for the barf bag!

[martha]

I hate Aliens. too floppy for my taste.

nice helmet sonnie is wearing.

[jeffincanmore]

To call this line

pretty much fully bolted except for one Alien when we were out there in July.

Yeah, well perhaps when you were projecting it in July the bolts were still there, before being chopped... Get your head checked man. Sonnie clipped the first bolt on wicked gravity when he did this thing and from there, ran it out on gear and guts.. You guys are (content moderated) might I add, all this (content moderated) talk of "oh, I wouldn't climb on aliens", "oooh this is a commercial", "oooh guess you gotta get paid somehow", "barf bag ((content moderated), seriously... just leave those comments out altogether).... I say "have some (content moderated) respect" for a guy who is pushing routes in a hard traditional sense in our over bolted sport climbing world. Not too many guys around would go chop the bolts and lead the thing as it should have been in the first place. To ask where his helmet is ? Take a look around in climbing these days, open a magazine, Tommy ? Nope, Beth, Nope ? Steph Davis on Gaia - Nope, Dave MacLoed (E10 trad routes) - Nope.... These guys don't wear helmets, whether it is their choice, sponsored image, or whatever, they just don't.. Don't make some BS snark comment (unless it was meant as a complete joke) about not wearing helmets...Granite_grrl -

video put a bad taste in my mouth

haven't figured that one out yet ?? I didn't see all the propaganda, other than "sponsored by CCH - Alien Cams" that you guys mentioned.. Didn't see any spiffy Petzl draws hanging on the project... I am confused by all you guys and your non-support for a fellow Canadian climber who is on the top of his game right now and enjoying pure climbing...... Maybe it is just an east coast thing to do, try to pick everything apart to make yourselves look better ? I sure hope I am wrong on this one (but being from the East Coast and seeing this on a daily basis on this forum and other useless BS rants I might be safe).... Elvis, where you at man ?

[chossmonkey]

Sorry to break it to you Jeff, but there were Petzl draws hanging all over it when we were out there. I don't know at what stage Sonnie was at with working it. But the bolts were obviously being used at that time. Its cool that he did a "bolted" route without the bolts but it just seems that the style was perhaps a bit questionable. To use the bolts (regardless of how little) for working the route then chopping them so repeat ascents don't have them as a tool to work the route, even if it is just to get to the anchor to set up a TR is bad style.

As to Aliens. That video makes it seem that the whole thing was just done as a publicity stunt. CCH has a bad track record and most people would rather see them actually deal with the issues rather than pay someone to run it out on a testpiece with their gear and use it for advertising.

[granite_grrl]

Jeff, chill out. You shouldn't jump on people's comments without fully understanding them. Sonnie seems like a pretty cool guy, and its neat that he pushes the limits in Trad climbing.

After the last exploding "tensile tested" from CCH (that poor climber was pushing his limits in trad too, and he could have lost his life due to poor products made by Alien) I do not like the company. The video is an ad for CCH and the message was "some of the best climbers in the wolrd trust Aliens....you should too", sorry that you were too blind to see that. In my opinion CCH would have been better off actually fully testing the cams they said they did.

So I repeat, my comment had nothing to do with Sonnie himself, but Alien propoganda puts a bad taste in my mouth.



PS - looking through Sonnie's blog it seems he started working the project at the start of July.

[Adam]

why can't we all just get along.

i still trust my aliens.

[granite_grrl]

To ask where his helmet is ? Take a look around in climbing these days, open a magazine, Tommy ? Nope, Beth, Nope ? Steph Davis on Gaia - Nope, Dave MacLoed (E10 trad routes) - Nope.... These guys don't wear helmets, whether it is their choice, sponsored image, or whatever, they just don't.. Don't make some BS snark comment (unless it was meant as a complete joke) about not wearing helmets...

Right, so if everyone else jumped off a bridge you'd do it too? Saying "well, no one else wears helmets" is not an argument, so don't make some BS snark comment about not wearing helmets.

I have heard of quite a few people getting hit by falling rock at my local crags (which, I'll admit, is a choss pile), yet very few people wear helmets when they're put there. Maybe if it was "cooler" to wear a helmet less people would get hurt just sitting around at the base.

[*Chris*]

... Get your head checked man... ... You guys are (content moderated) might I add... .. Don't make some BS snark comment... ... Maybe it is just an east coast thing to do, try to pick everything apart to make yourselves look better ? ... ... other useless BS rants ...

Hi jeffincanmore, welcome to CEC.

[martha]

I don't care about the recent 'issues' with Aliens. I just simply don't like them. I find the stems floppy, and on a blind placement they wander. I have my small metolious for that stuff. But that is just my personal preference.

As for the helmets... it was Certainly a sarcastic comment I made. I think it is crazy to not wear a helmet on lead. I wear mine always on lead and definately seconding trad or when climbing anywhere that I am not positive of rock quality etc. Or if I am belaying a new leader who is more likely to fumble and drop gear etc. I just like my melon how it is thanks. I don't care if all the 'cool sponsored climbers' don't wear helmets. I personally think they save lives. Granite Grrl...would you like to comment on that?

As for the style of the ascent... I don't know anything about it. I know that Sonnie Trotter is a hella hard climber and Kudos to him for breaking barriers. that is all I can say about that.

[Fred]

Not too many guys around would go chop the bolts and lead the thing as it should have been in the first place.

You are right on that one... because it's bad form.

[The Mitt]

Jeff,
I'm sure Sonnie is an awesome guy. Your right he is a Canadian pushing some hard stuff. The route is awesome and from the video he looks awesome at it. I also believe in responsible sponsorship. I don't know if you have followed all of the problems CCH has had with quality assurance. CCH has proven them selves not to be trustworthy. I think the video is just that a commercial of a guy doing an awesome route. Unfortunately its for a crap company that cares nothing for its customers.

As for the helmet bit, this community has had some serious accidents in the past 2 years that have hit pretty close to home for some people. I don't always where a helmet but I am also not doing commercials and putting myself out there as a "role model" for gear and rock climbing. So I think Martha's comment is a valid one.

Cheers,
Mitt
PS Welcome to CEC.
RC.com is having pretty much the same discussion http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1668166;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;guest=20518905

[granite_grrl]

Granite Grrl...would you like to comment on that?

I like to say that I need another hole in my head like I need a hole in my head....oh, I crack me up!!!! Not that I value my head that much more than I used to, I just realize a bit more that it can be pretty easy to do damage when you're out climbing.

So yeah, I'm a very pro-helmet climber. I do realize that it's a personal choice, but I think the default is not to wear one and not enough climbers think about it.

[Stevo]

Sorry, but I won't be paying for Sonny Trotters climbing holidays by rushing out and buying a rack of Aliens. I'll stick to WC Friends.

[Elvis]

Well what a shite show this thread turned into...

I saw Sonnie (21 Aug 07) on this route the day after he RP it. He was back again to shoot some video and pics. From what I observed in person is that he clipped a piece mid-route on "Wicked Gravity" 11a to avoid a ground fall then continued to the top of "Wicked" with out clipping any of the bolts or the anchor. He had a piece by the anchor and the rest of the climb is his new route "The Path". All the other times I was at the Back of the Lake this summer I never saw draws on bolts above "Wicked Gravity" only a work rope and one cam. Here is a quote from Sonnie on this chosen style of ascent;

"By rapping in, I discovered that the route can and should be climbed entirely on natural gear, all trad. So after two days of top-roping the climb using cams for directionals, I knew for sure that it was meant to be climbed in a traditional style, not sport. So I went up and chopped all the bolts off. It was a hard decision to make at first because it is now rated R, but I have gotten a lot of great responses from people and it was ultimately the best choice to make. I then worked on the climb for about 10 days spread out over 5 weeks before redpointing it, placing all the gear on lead, and avoiding any fixed gear. It was the best style I could imagine doing and it was a great relief to finish it."

It was truly amazing to see a fellow Canadian climbing 14+ at an elevation of 1750m above sea level in 10deg C weather with the evening light fading fast.

Why would you guys want to bring such an awesome achievement down like this? Regardless of sponsors, helmet choice (witch most are only designed to protect from falling objects not side impact), and advertisement, Sonnie has constantly reflected a strong Canadian image in all his ascents and has put Canada on the map of hard climbing time and time again. The man is trying to make a living as a professional climber in North America and I can only imagine how hard this can be. Sonnie recently became an assistant rock guide with the ACMG further investing in his professionalism as a climber. This certification isn’t cheep, so hell yes he has to shoot photos and video to keep sponsors happy and get paid. And I highly doubt that CCH has ever given Sonnie any cold hard cash to go traveling. They barely have enough to do good quality control.

Remember this is just my opinion and opinions are like (content moderated) everybody has one, even when they are ignorant to a situation or event.


E.

[Ken P]

Well said!

Way to go Sonnie, awsome climb!

[Fred]

(witch most are only designed to protect from falling objects not side impact)

actualy, that is quite the opposite by today's standards

All climbing helmets will provide some protection against blows to the upper head. More traditional non-foam helmets are more durable and protect you best from falling objects. Modern foam-injected helmets protect you from front and side impacts.

http://www.mec.ca/Main/content_text.jsp ... 8673220831

[Elvis]

(witch most are only designed to protect from falling objects not side impact)

actualy, that is quite the opposite by today's standards

All climbing helmets will provide some protection against blows to the upper head. More traditional non-foam helmets are more durable and protect you best from falling objects. Modern foam-injected helmets protect you from front and side impacts.

http://www.mec.ca/Main/content_text.jsp ... 8673220831

Please tell me you just did not quote an outdoor retailer on a safety issue. These guys sell mountain gear, NOT safety. Might what to check with a more reliable source Like the UIAA, ACMG or IFMGA... Petzl does a good job in their catalogue and have been previously quoted by the ACMG.

Not debating weather or not helmets save lives, THEY DO! Just trying to shed some light on why some climbers of this level chose weather to where one or not. In this case the route is quite overhung and is on quartzite a rock of good quality.

I've been hit by rock fall more than I care to remember here in the Rotten Rockies, so I wear one all the time.

E.

[Adam]

i think his ascent is pretty crazy... however there are routes all over the world that are sport but could have been R rated trad. now next to no one will climb this thing because of the danger involved.

but credit to sonny for giviner and being willing to attempt stuff like this. i'm gonna keep clipping bolted routes instead of R rated trad however... and will wear my helmet

[mathieu]

chossmonkey, seems your opinion on this are based on what you thought was the route he was working on. I guess like the old saying says 'never assume anything cause it just makes an ass-of u-and me".

Helmet, that's his choice and as Elvis mentionned, the wall is overhanging and the rock is solid. And in regards to the gear, Who de (content moderated) cares. This thread should be moved to the "gear page", the entire conversation is centered on piece he used and helmet design.

In the early days I had a very black-and-white view of everything.
Cat Stevens

Mathieu

[Fred]

the entire conversation is centered on piece he used and helmet design

but that's the beauty and irony of this debate which I find quite interesting...

A groupe of individuls are merely interested in the logistics and facts surrounding the issue. Another group are emotionaly tied and defensive. It's a classic debate easly provoked most often by people who don't even care.

[Fred]

Please tell me you just did not quote an outdoor retailer on a safety issue.

Of course I did. It was a sure way to get a response from you.

[Elvis]

Please tell me you just did not quote an outdoor retailer on a safety issue.

Of course I did. It was a sure way to get a response from you.

Fred,

Please don't kid yourself. You probably have the MEC webpage on some sort of super duper geek out Favorites/Bookmark thing... Wasting away precious moments fact checking all the BS on this web board

E.

[Fred]

yup. It's bookmarked right next to UIAA which I quickly added to my quick links after you gave the link to this valuable resource. thx btw

[chossmonkey]

chossmonkey, seems your opinion on this are based on what you thought was the route he was working on. I guess like the old saying says 'never assume anything cause it just makes an ass-of u-and me".

Sorry to disappoint but my suspicions of the route have been confirmed. When we saw it there were draws on many of the bolts.

[Ken P]

http://www.sonnietrotter.com/roadlife.php

"Path"-etic Details at the top of the page.

Should end "speculation"