access issues???

[Rich]

I keep hearing rumours of access issues regarding very prominent climbing localities within the Musquodoboit area. As someone who, like many others, gets a lot of satisfaction from visiting these areas, I'm pretty concerned and curious. So, I'm wondering how serious these issues are and what is presently being done about them. Will CNS be meeting to discuss these issues soon? If so, it would be great if someone could put a post up regarding meeting times, etc so that non-board members like myself may attend. Thanks,

-Rich

[The Teth]

What are these access issues?

I had to talk to the land owner of part of Main Face and Columbus Wall three or four years ago after he found camp fires at Main Face. I was able to avoid an issue at the time by promising to post on the climbing discussion board that there should be no camp fires there. There was also the issue with the other land owner at main face which lead to the creation of Climb Nova Scotia in 1991. I think Sean Kelly has talked to that landowner in passing several times while visiting Main Face, although I have never talked to him myself. The deal with that land owner gives access to the cliff for CNS members.

What are the new issues in the Musquodoboit area?

Teth

[Rich]

From what I've heard:

1) Columbus wall access is being jeopardized by some type of development - somebody mentioned a subdivision
2) The person whose property must be crossed to get to First Face doesn't want people crossing it - I've heard that they are to develop their property
3) Either a section of Main Face or Neverland is owned by somebody who isn't happy - no idea why

That is about all I've gathered. I've heard similar claims from varying persons with CNS insight but am unsure as to the severity of it all.

[ben smith]

Yo rich- so sean kelly mentioned that these areas might become access issues in the futer- he said that he spoke to the land owner at main face who had found that tree that got cut a couple years back- but we haven't heard anything other than that- Mitt if you're around- is there any update in these areas? As far as I know all those areas are still open-

[Rich]

That's comforting to here that they are not immediate concerns - but if they are identified as future problems it would be great to act deliberately to avoid them.

[tracstarr]

well, the rumors i've heard is that yes, columbus wall is pretty close to a new development. Not sure if it's on any of the development land though. If so it is a possibility that it could be purchased is my guess. First face itself won't be developed last i heard, but the owners are trying to sell it to someone who also wants to not develop on the land. Main face is touchy, but last i heard the smoke is out for now. My opinion is they we will loose all 3 areas unless something is done ASAP. we might get away with it this year, but i think by next there will be some really big concerns.

just my 2 cents

[martha]

My opinion is they we will loose all 3 areas unless something is done ASAP. we might get away with it this year, but i think by next there will be some really big concerns.

just my 2 cents

exactly why I think putting any excess fund from CNS this year into the Access fund isn't a bad idea. It could become a down payment or something.

[tracstarr]

yep. exactly. it's a good use of $$

[zig]

As a CNS member I vote to put money in the CNS access fund. Do it! Now! If CNS has money to spend dump it in the fund.
Who else is with me?
Ghislain

[The Mitt]

Ok. Access.... Always an issue, just not an immediate one right now.

First Face---- For Sale has been for 3 years. The owners want to sell it for approx 100k. The current issue keeping it from being bought is that the current owners don't want to see it over developed. Loss of access is just a matter of time. I have some plans if anyone wants to talk there are really 2 routes we can go neither of which is cheap.

Columbus----- Much of the land in the back of the property was sold and there is a developer planning on developing it for hunting, fishing and cottage country. Columbus is not within the land that will be for sale but there are potential cliffs up there that are. On a second note the 2 land owners are in a dispute over who may access the land. One owner wants no body up there (thats the guy we have been dealing with, the lumber company). The other wants it to be public use and or pay as you go. I spoke to both of these people at the end of the year. Access here is unsure, for now i would suggest we let sleeping dogs lie. If you drive in past the gate there is a chance that you will get locked in, please don't bitch if that happens. If you don't want to take the chance walk in like before.

Main Face---- Always an issue, the owner is very nice but extremely protective over his land. He is putting less and less work into it as time goes on and its only a matter of time before he realizes that its never going to be a profitable business venture. He has voiced concerns about litter, cutting of trees, and fires. Of note he does not own the cliff but the land that we use to access the cliff. I spoke to a developer and they mentioned that all of that land is being sought after to be developed. I would strongly suggest that prior to removing any trees or camping at the site to get permission. Would also be a great idea to rent out his cabin.


Overall---- None of these issues are new. Its stuff that some of us have been handling in the background mainly by keeping in touch with the owners. Steve P has been one of our best people when it comes to access. Thanks to him most of the owners think very highly of the climbers in NS. If anyone wants to discuss access I am willing to talk about it but I don't have a great amount of time until after 27 Apr. I will be at the next Stoners gathering and would be willing to discuss it there. There are some plans that I have looked into if we loose a major area, things like right of passage for recreation, squatters rights, and even buying the land. For now we have been lucky and keep dodging the bullets. I hope that helps, if there are any questions fire away.

[granite_grrl]

It boogles the mind that we can't ralley $100k to buy the land that first face is on, or at least make a good effort towards it. Take a look at Laural Knob in NC, to date they have raised over $210k for purchace of that cliff. Climbers from all over North America has put thier money towards it.

It worries me that there's this "sit back and wait" attitude. You can do that to a certain extent, but think of how much money you'd have by now if you had started saving to buy First Face three years ago. Its better to be proactive about access than to wait at the last minute to try to scramble $100k at the last minute.

Thank you for the in depth report Sean, even though I'm 3 provinces away its nice to hear what's going on.

[Zamboni]

The Main ( no pun intended ) reason I'm posting here is not to hit "500" posts ( Yea BABY! ) But to ask if you think CNS should start doing some fund raising. If the obvious answer is yes, than how should CNS do it. Other than making public the location of our access account, to accept donations. What do you members / non members what us to do?

If this is an important issue for you ( pointing fingers at every person who reads this 500rith thread ) than attend next months AGM meeting, and get involved.

Date TBA.

Conan.

[granite_grrl]

These are the two best examples that I can think of of buying a cliff. I heard both of them on rockclimbing.com and donated to each. So soliciting the climbing community for money works.

http://carolinaclimbers.org/?page_id=23
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/

One thing I saw when the RRG stuff was still hot was the online auction for donations. It was a pretty cool thing, people donating gear and more importantly time. There were things like photo shoot, show you around belay b**** days and rope gun days.

The Access Fund (still wish they were active in Canada) supported them too, and I think they got donations from other climbing companies too. I don't know the full details of all the ways they got money, but its a starting point if you wanted to ask them.

[martha]

There is no question that the online donation thing with the RRG worked amazingly. An auction is a fab idea. People donated tons of things, kayaking adventures, babysitting, meals, wine, paintings etc. They raised a ton of cash.

They also have a tally that constantly updates on their forum with the amount of donations coming in.

To put things in perspective, the unb rock and Ice club annually generates around 15,000. this is all volunteer activities and fund raising. Our best year ever (we were working hard to raise money to build the additional room) we raised $28,000.

it can be done!

[martha]

As a CNS member I vote to put money in the CNS access fund. Do it! Now! If CNS has money to spend dump it in the fund.
Who else is with me?
Ghislain

Yup. we have $2000 we have to allocate before march 31. some has been used for a climbing afternoon for a kids program.. but there is lots left to be finally decided on!

ACCESS FUND!!

[*Chris*]

Although not a CNS member, I have climbed at Main face and planned to do so again this year. I'd certainly contribute to a fundraiser to maintain access there. It's a good idea. From what is written above I'm unclear whether the access problems are associated with paddling in on the lake or confined to bushwacking in from the main drag.

[Scooter]

I like the gear donation idea

Other ways of fundraising could include:

1) Raffels? Get a company to donate a product(s) (or get some cheap) and those interested buy a ticket (5$ or something) and all the money goes to Access Fund?

2) Get the gyms involved... have a comp... much like the climb for conservation... a portion of the money will to to the AF

3) Boulderfest: take like 2-5$ from everyones ticket and donate to access fund? or if not boudlerfest host a similar event?

4) Donations

5) Im sure if we all think of some we can come up with dozens of ideas

It may be a long battle but every dollar counts..right?!

Also, I would rather have natural existing climbing areas kept climbable than a fake boulder park on the commons. I support the boulder park but if these issues with cliffs exist then... I think it is pretty obvious what should be done.

[Scooter]

What if we had a deal with MEC? Everytime a person buys climbing gear a few cents will be donated to CNS? They had a similar thing (might still) where if you chose not to get a plastic bag then $0.05 was donated to the other CNS (Clean Nova Scotia)

[granite_grrl]

It may be a long battle but every dollar counts..right?!

Common $100k is a lot, but its not that much, and you have the time. I'm also wondering what kind of finacing is avalible from the bank.

BTW - some good ideas there

[The Mitt]

Although not a CNS member, I have climbed at Main face and planned to do so again this year. I'd certainly contribute to a fundraiser to maintain access there. It's a good idea. From what is written above I'm unclear whether the access problems are associated with paddling in on the lake or confined to bushwacking in from the main drag.

Well all of the land is owned, the person who "owns" the majority of the cliff is not the person that I have dealt with however they are related I believe (second hand info). The person that I have dealt with owns the trail in and half of e-gully. Regardless there have been issues and there are issues over the horizon. I just don't want to sound like chicken little here, the sky is not falling. I don't think there is a need to panic but there is certainly a need to take action and have a plan that is proactive not reactive. All plans take money thats why I pushed so hard for an access fund.

If people wanna get together I am willing to discuss what I know.

Hope that helps

Gratz on the 500 posts

Mitt

[Rich]

I'm all for putting money into access. In my opinion, maintaining access should be the number one priority for CNS. Although the idea of CNS purchasing a parcel of land may be appealing to some , I'm not too sure if it is really that desirable. Given the small size of the outdoor climbing community in NS, CNS's membership base is vulnerable to drastic fluctuations. Along with this comes insecure funds to maintain a property over an extended period of time and varying interest and energy by representatives. Partnering with a conservation organization such as the NS Nature Trust or NCC might be more desirable if monies could be raised by CNS but property rites given to the conservation organization with a legal clause to allow climbing activities and other recreational persuits on the property. I'm not sure if any organization would be open to such an idea or not. Just brainstorming...

Alternatively, anything we could do to stay on the good side of property owners would be money well spent. A great example of this is the $ CNS donated to road maintenance at First Face some years ago. Any suggestions along this line?

[chossmonkey]

Partnering with a conservation organization such as the NS Nature Trust or NCC might be more desirable if monies could be raised by CNS but property rites given to the conservation organization with a legal clause to allow climbing activities and other recreational persuits on the property. I'm not sure if any organization would be open to such an idea or not. Just brainstorming...

This is actually pretty comon int he States when climbers raise money to buy land. It is generally turned into a park where climbing is not to ever be threatened or restricted. For a small group to outright buy the land wouldn't make much sense, as per the points raised.

I'm currently trying to convince Rebecca that we should buy it, then we can build a house right at the bottom and I can sit on the deck with a shotgun and chase off all the climbers.

[martha]

I'm currently trying to convince Rebecca that we should buy it, then we can build a house right at the bottom and I can sit on the deck with a shotgun and chase off all the climbers.

Damn you choss... Fred and I want to do that.

on another note.. MEC has lots of funds for various organisations to help out with environmental issues and likely would be willing to put in. All that has to happen is a proposal sent in.

Fred and I on behalf of UNB R&I sent in a proposal to MEC some years back to get money for an Erosion remediation project in Welsford. they gave us 400$. That went a long way in purchasing matierials. I think total we needed about $2000. and between a donation from the R&I club as well as money raised from a 50/50 draw at the Banff film fest and some other fund raising we came up with the funds.

It can definately be done. Partnering with the NS Nature trust might be a good idea, but they would be one of the first groups to deny climbers access should we start scrubbing moss and hacking down trees. The clause in any agreement with them would have to be substancial.

I also agree that money into the access fund for these such isses is more important than plastic boulders at the commons.

[Scooter]

CNS should have a meeting where they can discuss options on fundraising...

[Zamboni]

The AGM, in april.