starting a gym

[shannon]

People are asking about gyms in PEI, and I have mentioned home gyms like my project gym, and chris's summer wall.

Maybe this can be a venue for ideas and suggestions on getting a gym started. I know that MEC helps fund those persuits.

The boys and girls club isn't that any more. It closed a while ago, and was turned into a fitness center Charlottetown Fitness center(?). Their pool closed last fall when UPEI built the new one. I thought that it would be a great opportunity to put in a climbing gym in its place. But I figure that going to the owner would get a response asking if I had money to invest. I guess everyone has ideas, but few have the money.

Mod.

[saF]

I know that I would be interested in joining a gym that had a decent bouldering or climbing wall.

Once I move to Cornwall in April, I will probably start on my own home wall in the garage ASAP so I don't go into withdrawals!

I had contemplated working towards opening a small bouldering gym, but the work involved would have been more than I am willing to take on and the expense too great.

saF

[shannon]

I had a brain fart when I saw the military people set up at my work place (high school) and remembered how gagetown had a climbing facility on their premesis.

I have a contact number, and will call to make a proposal.

Does anyone have any prices on climbing wall supplies? Especially the wall modules themselves, or at least an alternative to them. Plywood would work, but may not give the gym the same appeal.

-mod.

Would MEC still be interested in kicking in in that venue?

[Fred]

check otu Eldorado walls on the net

also, there is a company out of Quebec but forget their name.

[Guest]

nothing wrong with plywood IMO. dunno the price comparison to the panels you can get.

plywood requires tnuts and textured paint (well, i have tried plywood wihtout it and it SUCKS... so definately need texture) and requires skill with carpentry to be able to match up seems well enough that it doesn't look like shite.

dunno what's involved with a panel type structure, but i'm guessing hte support infrastructure must be pretty substantial, though probably less so than required for plywood since the panels must be lighter.

either way its an expensive endeavor. cause at that point you don't even have any holds on your wall!

here's a quebec company that makes walls...

[granite_grrl]

Have you considered trying to start it up at the UPEI campus? I'm not sure what their facilities are like, but I remember the couple of semesters that I visited the Dalplex climbing wall in Halifax there were always a ton of people that had only recently started climbing becuase of that wall. True, there were those who just wanted it as a workout, but there were also others who fell in love with it and started outdoors once they got the chance.

University students...good market to target.

[dcentral]

I don't really like the panels like they have at mec to climb on. They can be pretty limiting on what size holds you can set them, and the size of bolts that you can use.

I did talk to someone who said you oculd modify the panels to allow bigger screws but that seemed like a lot of work.

I havn't set up either but that's just my opinion on the panels. THere maybe better options for panels out there. They seem to be good if you are just going to set a route and leave it.

[mitchleblanc]

Moulded panels frigging suck. I've never been to a gym where the panelled walls were any better than the plywood ones, certainly not to the point of justifying their hugely expensive cost.

Plywood is fine, as adam said, just texture it and you're happy.

[The Teth]

Plywood is definitely best. Hardwood is preferable as it will hold up longer. (Won’t have the tee nuts twist out as easy.) You can get Tee nuts from MEC, and everything else from your local building supply store. If you paint a design or pattern which crosses several of the plywood sheets the eye will not pick up the seems as easily and it will look more coherent and professional. The holds will be a big expense, but you can buy them a few at a time, which gives you the frill of trying out new holds every couple of months.

Maybe some of you guys should pull your resources and start by trying to put together the ultimate garage setup. Maybe you can find someone with a barn.

The military and the university are worth approaching. They are more likely to have funding and people interested in using the wall.


The Teth

[Fred]

here is a handy equation for when the time comes:

CC = EC x 2

where:
CC = construction cost ($)
EC = estimated cost ($)

[dcentral]

You'll save money by buying direct from hold manufactures.

[Guest]

if you want to save money on holds you can look for some hard sandstone (if it exists on the island) and use that for holds... the hard part is drilling hte hole so the hold's back face sits flush with the wall... if it doesn't it will just end up spinning...

granite and other rock types are also an option, but hard to come by on the island. i've a friend whose parents use to take a bunch of rocks back with them when visiting the mainland they wanted to have 'good' rocks to line their garden with ... silly islanders jk

[shannon]

I guess the answer to that would be to drill the rocks on a drill press using the table to keep everything perpendicular.

shannon

[mitchleblanc]

Re: drilling your own real rock.

Though I've done it, (me and Chris used to have tons of real rock holds at my house, and later, at the climbing wall) and it does make for some cool holds... They have a tendency to spin, break, wear out (around the bolt hole), and they aren't good for training. I mean, you can use some, for sure, do it, they're cool but... if you're trying to skimp on buying real holds, bad idea.

[shannon]

Any one have any proposals kicking around for these sorts of exploits?

I wonder if SeanT is listening in; owner of ground zero. MAybe he could give some advice on getting one started.

shannon B -Mod.

[Guest]

yah, they do tend to spin... and no, its not just a matter of using a drillpress. even if it is laying flat when you drill it, unless the rear surface is completely flat you will find it will spin *very* easily once on the wall. it really needs to be absolutely flush to the wall.

i think a solution to that would be to use resin to create a semi-sticky flat surface for the back...

haven't tried it so i dunno how well it would work though.

[shannon]

I think I might be more inclined to use resin (like that for fibreglass) to create textures on the wall, leaving clean smooth areas for where the holds go.

-mod.

[The Teth]

A gym I used to frequent in Santa Clara California had moulded wall features so that the area under the hold was not always flat. To prevent the holds from spinning they glued a quarter inch of rubber to the back of all the holds. (I think the rugger was the leftovers from a shoe factory.) It worked quite well, but it must have been a pain to glue ruber on the back of all the holds for a gym three times the size of Beyond Gravity. Anyway, the same trick might work to keep an irregular hold from spinning on a flat wall. The ruber would greatly increase the friction.

The Teth

PS: Congratulations PEI on getting a thread long enough to rap to the second page.

[Guest]

a word of caution... if you make features like that, don't make them too 'good'... else every problem/route in that area will be made too easy.. unless you disclaim the features...

but then again you might not care.

[mitchleblanc]

I think I might be more inclined to use resin (like that for fibreglass) to create textures on the wall, leaving clean smooth areas for where the holds go.

-mod.

It's a good idea, but textured walls are useless for training. You don't *want* holds in the same spots all the time. You can texture a wall to look like a dinosaur or something for the kids, but you're wasting your time otherwise, in my opinion.

[shannon]

I think I might be more inclined to use resin (like that for fibreglass) to create textures on the wall, leaving clean smooth areas for where the holds go.

-mod.

It's a good idea, but textured walls are useless for training. You don't *want* holds in the same spots all the time. You can texture a wall to look like a dinosaur or something for the kids, but you're wasting your time otherwise, in my opinion.

I think a textured wall is good for smooshing for the feet. Make little ridges, et al. Really fine features that typical foot holds jsut can't do.

Next problem would be to rate the problems after they were created. Hardest I can do at this point is a 5.8. There's always the more simple rating method of Can do and can't do yet.

shannon

[Tim;]

I am new to the game,and would love to get into it hard core.I was going to build my own 30' Climbing wall for myself,because I can"t fine anything on P.E.I(that I know of)as a trial,I built a 4'x8' wall on my kids wood play set(they love it)I used 2x4 blocks with 1/2&3/4" plywood as spacers for the holds and used a carriage bolt.It work great,Ijump all over it and it was fine.As THE TETH said on Feb/16/05 fine a old barn somewhere,and do it.It's not the look of the wall,it'the fun of climbing.

[mitchleblanc]

I think a textured wall is good for smooshing for the feet. Make little ridges, et al. Really fine features that typical foot holds jsut can't do.

Next problem would be to rate the problems after they were created. Hardest I can do at this point is a 5.8. There's always the more simple rating method of Can do and can't do yet.

shannon

I disgree... screw on jibs or foot chips or whatever they call them are more than sufficient. If you have texture on your wall (I mean, like grit, not textured, moulded surfaces) then an step between jibs and "really fine features" is unecessary. Just smear, if you want a foothold so small that a jib won't do!

As for rating.. I wouldn't worry about that. Just use a rating system from 1 to X, where the higher the number the harder it is. As long as you're consistent, it doesn't matter what the actual grade is...

[Guest]

I think a textured wall is good for smooshing for the feet. Make little ridges, et al. Really fine features that typical foot holds jsut can't do.

Next problem would be to rate the problems after they were created. Hardest I can do at this point is a 5.8. There's always the more simple rating method of Can do and can't do yet.

shannon

I disgree... screw on jibs or foot chips or whatever they call them are more than sufficient. If you have texture on your wall (I mean, like grit, not textured, moulded surfaces) then an step between jibs and "really fine features" is unecessary. Just smear, if you want a foothold so small that a jib won't do!

As for rating.. I wouldn't worry about that. Just use a rating system from 1 to X, where the higher the number the harder it is. As long as you're consistent, it doesn't matter what the actual grade is...

I agree with Mitch - there are tons of very tricksy screw on jibs out there. There are a couple of bolt on Nicros ones at the gym I climb at that only have texture on a one little edge, the rest of the hold is pretty much usless.

I'd spend more time looking at angles of the walls than featuring the walls. The gym I climb at sucks because most of it is vertical. It's pretty lame to see all the boulders huddling around only a couple wall sections in the entire gym.

Grades: I won't grade any routes/problems I set. If someone really wants a grade then we'll grab a few people and try to get a consensus. In any area route grades are subjective (gyms or outside). If you found that the 5.9 was too easy get on the 10a, or vise versa.

[granite_grrl]

The real rocks holds used at the gym I climb at (which suck, they used rounded polised river stones, honestly, what were they thinking?) are screwed on instead of bolted. I think they typically use 3 screws for each rock. As far as I know there has been no problems with them spinning, etc, and they should be no more damanging to the walls than screw on jibs.

[Guest]

As far as I know there has been no problems with them spinning,

there wouldn't be a spinning problem with screw ons unless you only used a single screw.... i was just talking about bolt ons..

[granite_grrl]

As far as I know there has been no problems with them spinning,

there wouldn't be a spinning problem with screw ons unless you only used a single screw.... i was just talking about bolt ons..

My brain's running a little slow today, I'm not having a very good time with the Union at work..... I guess I should have said something like - "they don't seem to have a problem torqueing or twisting". They are larger holds and the screws are placed closer to the center.

[Guest]

My brain's running a little slow today, I'm not having a very good time with the Union at work..... I guess I should have said something like - "they don't seem to have a problem torqueing or twisting". They are larger holds and the screws are placed closer to the center.

don't let the union get you down

i see... yah, if a big hold was screwed on with the screws all being close to center then yah, you'd prob be able to torque it off... point taken. whose design was that ??

[granite_grrl]

My brain's running a little slow today, I'm not having a very good time with the Union at work..... I guess I should have said something like - "they don't seem to have a problem torqueing or twisting". They are larger holds and the screws are placed closer to the center.

don't let the union get you down

i see... yah, if a big hold was screwed on with the screws all being close to center then yah, you'd prob be able to torque it off... point taken. whose design was that ??

The same guy who thought it would be a good idea to use polished river stones, obviously.

[mitchleblanc]

Grades: I won't grade any routes/problems I set. If someone really wants a grade then we'll grab a few people and try to get a consensus. In any area route grades are subjective (gyms or outside). If you found that the 5.9 was too easy get on the 10a, or vise versa.

Why is that? How does that benefit anyone? I don't understand why you would not grade a problem, then say that if someone "wants a grade" (which nearly everyone does) then you'll "grab a few people"... Are you worried your grading won't be precise? I think you can do your best, and not be too worried, because everyone knows that grading is subjective. Grading is hard, I agree, but it's a skill and it's helpful in a gym, because people are usually in a gym to improve; They need milestones and objectives.

Your argument is completely illogical: If you think the 5.9 is too easy, get on the 5.10a??? But ... How do you know what the grades are, unless they are graded??? Or, ok, let's assume you meant "Get on route A), it's too easy, get on route B)"... well, sometimes people have finite lifespans, and like to not just *guess* route grades. Your idea is fine for me, because I'm happy to lead anything, regardless of grade, but not so great for my sister, who has never led, and could potentially get hurt if she can't pull a 5.10 crux with no pro and no downclimbing. Further, you can't know if you're improving (maybe this isn't an issue for you, maybe you don't care if you improve or not?) if you don't have milestones or goals, which grades provide.

If you think you're pulling a Chris Sharma type boycott on grades, then I have less good things to say... <-- wink, indicating that the tone of my post is not angry.