All I have to say is HOLLY frig!

[LT]

Take note of the following.

The analysis conducted by Black Diamond concluded that the rope had broken after two sections/pieces had rubbed against each other during the fall, thus melting it to breaking point when the full load was applied.

The rope was in excellent condition.

It did not break at a knot.

It was the change in "jump angle" quoted above (i.e. he changed his takeoff point and had to jump over the retrieval line) which was thought to have caused the ropes to come into contact, thus creating the friction/melting.

I have this information from a report lodged on rec.climbing who completed the rope analysis. I dont have the link now - if you want his exact words, do a search.



Stick to the facts everyone! Dont feed the rumours!

[PaulB]

From what I understand about the circumstances surrounding his death...

The story i heard....

The story is well told in this link:

Osman eventually got caught.

[Ken P]

Also: http://www.fishproducts.com/tech/rope.html

Scroll down a few pages, it's the "Rope Failure Analysis."

[Fred]

Equipment failure or not, it's like having catch with a hand grenade...hot potato, hot potato!

agreed

the exact point that I was trying to make as well

[chossmonkey]

Equipment failure or not, it's like having catch with a hand grenade...hot potato, hot potato!

agreed

the exact point that I was trying to make as well

Every time we go out and do what we love we expose ourselves to risk. Through lots of experience and knowledge we can cut the risk down a lot, but there are always going to be things that get over looked or are out of our control.

Its all calculated risk, at what point are we crazy?

Yes, Dan was pushing the limits. But how is that any different than anyone else that pushes the limits in any other activity that threatens bodily injury or death? With out people like him race cars would only go 150 kph , 5.10 would still be an unattainable grade, and the biggest most forbidding mountains would remain unclimbed.

[Fred]

I agree with you 100% but statisticaly speaking, climbers are high risk which is why insurance companies charge an arm and a leg for life insurance to climbers. Dan would certainly have been at the top of that pack of risk takers. So perhaps it was the probability that got him, not the gear failure.

[Ken P]

Its all calculated risk, at what point are we crazy?


Jumping from 1100ft.

[chossmonkey]

Gear failure is part of the probability.

It was argued, "You can only do crazy stuff for so long before it catches up with you.". Of all the "crazy" stuff Dan did, the rope jumping is probably one of the least risky, regardless of what a biast article states.

Here is a little bit from someone who likely knows far more about gear than anyone who frequents this site or someone who writes for Outside Magazine.

*snip* from the FISH site

Conclusions:
What is to be learned from this accident? NEVER LET NYLON SLIDE AGAINST
NYLON! You should already know this.

I also know that Dano's rigging setup was reviewed by more than a couple
of technically competent people. I also know that he tested it multiple
times. I personally do not think that what Dan was doing (when done
properly as he had done on earlier jumps) was any more dangerous than
modern ice climbers doing hard thin ice routes (like in Maple Canyon and
elsewhere), in fact his setup was most likely safer in my personal
opinion. Dan's death was a tragedy and an accident.

Again, this summary is mine personally and not that of Black Diamond.

*snip*


While it is percived as being crazy, just like most things it really isn't as crasy if you understand it. As far as I'm concerned it wasn't the truly crazy stuff that killed him. Had he fell off "The Gun Club" when soloing it right after doing it with a rope, having trouble while doing so, it might be a valid arguement. Or maybe if he had died when he slipped while speed soloing the route in the video, but he didn't.


The one thing I learned with Rebecca's fall is that bad things can happen to any of us. You don't need to be pushing your limits or have gear failure to get bit in the ass. Anyone who thinks bad things can't happen to them, or that things need to catch up with you before things go wrong is lying to themselves.

[chossmonkey]

Its all calculated risk, at what point are we crazy?


Jumping from 1100ft.

So had he jumped from 1,000 feet he wouldn't have been?


There were 18 perfectly safe jumps on that same rig from 1100ft. Had the ropes not crossed it is likely there could have been many more. What went wrong could have happened on the first jump.

So basically if it something you wouldn't do it is crazy?

[Ken P]

In my [color=blue]opinion[/color] he could of jumped from 50ft on a 25ft rope. It really doesn't matter. You could beat this with a stick and not get anywhere. Everyones opinion will be a little different from the next.

Your right his solos are probably just as bold.

If I wouldn't do it do I consider it crazy? Yep!

Anyone who knows me even a little knows that I hate to fall on sport routes at the gym. You probably climb trad routes that I would consider crazy, but totally within your comfort zone.

Everyones opinions have legitimate thoughts.

Peace

[Fred]

I personally do not think that what Dan was doing (when done properly as he had done on earlier jumps) was any more dangerous than modern ice climbers doing hard thin ice routes (like in Maple Canyon and elsewhere), in fact his setup was most likely safer in my personal opinion.

I think Chris sums it up nicely, comparing Dan's stunts to thin bold ice routes. Notice he did not say... any more dangerous than traditional rock climbing. Because the reality of it is, it's more comparable to risky thin ice routes. In my opinion, those guys are tempting probabilities as well.

[chossmonkey]

I personally do not think that what Dan was doing (when done properly as he had done on earlier jumps) was any more dangerous than modern ice climbers doing hard thin ice routes (like in Maple Canyon and elsewhere), in fact his setup was most likely safer in my personal opinion.

I think Chris sums it up nicely, comparing Dan's stunts to thin bold ice routes. Notice he did not say... any more dangerous than traditional rock climbing. Because the reality of it is, it's more comparable to risky thin ice routes. In my opinion, those guys are tempting probabilities as well.

Regardless, even though either would be suicide for someone who doesn't know what they are doing, both can be relativly safe for someone who is competent.

[mathieu]

Regardless, even though either would be suicide for someone who doesn't know what they are doing, both can be relativly safe for someone who is competent.

I don't think the word "safe" can be used for hard thin ice routes or hard aid or even for that matter x rated trad climb.

[LT]

Gear failure had nothing to do with it.
he changed the direction of the jump plan.
human error
research

[chossmonkey]

Gear failure had nothing to do with it.
he changed the direction of the jump plan.
human error
research

Human error that lead to gear failure.

[chossmonkey]

Regardless, even though either would be suicide for someone who doesn't know what they are doing, both can be relativly safe for someone who is competent.

I don't think the word "safe" can be used for hard thin ice routes or hard aid or even for that matter x rated trad climb.

And easy fat ice is safe?

Its safer, but it isn't safe.

Competence increases the safety factor regardless of if there is gear or not. Arguably competence increases the safety factor more than the promise of good gear.


My point is nothing in life is safe but at the same time everything doesn't have the same level of danger for each person.

Truthfully I see incompetent people much more often on easy "safe" routes putting themselves at much more risk than competent people do on "unsafe" routes. False feelings of safety are the quickest way to get yourself hurt or killed whether climbing, jumping off a cliff, or crossing the street.

[LT]

Gear failure had nothing to do with it.
he changed the direction of the jump plan.
human error
research

Human error that lead to gear failure.

without human error-sans gear failure duh