sport

[renegade]

hey i am still fairly new to the climbing scene and have never been outside yet. just wondering how does sport climbing work when it is more than one pitch? when the rope runs out and you can no longer climb up on belay, do you anchor and climber climbs up to meet you? and how do you get down. any links would help

[Bert]

Well, if you are in Nova Scotia, you will not find any route in sports that are long enough to do a multi-pitch. Even in Quebec, I know only a couple ones, and they are both possible to do into one rope lenght, the only reason there is a belay station in between, it's because the route gets way harder on the secon pitch and most people do only the first one.

The best way to lead climb a multi-pitch is in trad, and it's a different approach of climbing.

Basically, you need two ropes to do some multi-pitch, or you need a reppel station every 30m max (rope of 60m). The leader climb the first pitch. He makes a belay station and belay his second (from the top) that take back all the equipment. The leader re-equiped can start the secon pitch and so on...

I think one of the best way to learn about leading multi-pitch is to go with someone who has the experience and learn from them. Books and boards gonna show you only one side of the medal. The reallity if often different. But if you want a good book, the bible is "mountaineering the freedom of the hills". The last edition (7th) is very good, but does not replace experience.

The best way to climb and to learn is to think safety first.

If you are arround halifax, we are often going out durring the week-end. The rock season is about to begin, I give an other sunday to ice climbing, and it's gonna be the rock season.

Enjoy your summer

Bert.

[mitchleblanc]

The best way to lead climb a multi-pitch is in trad, and it's a different approach of climbing.

Dude, that's the dumbest thing I've ever read, though I'm sure you didn't intend it to be. Would you care to explain what you could have possibly meant by that?

I'll try to answer your question also... To lead multi-pitch sport routes is a million times easier than multi-pitch trad routes in fact: There will be bolted anchors! Two or three bolts at a ledge or something (or maybe nothing). You just clip two
biners, clip and equalize slings, cord or even just your rope, and hang there, and belay the guy up, and he (not the 1st leader usually) can lead the next pitch, because he's already got all the draws, and the belay is setup, and the rope is ready, etc. Super easy, though I know my explanation is too brief for real instruction. To get off, you simply rappel down, although there is an issue of how long your rope is versus how long it is to each anchor. Lots of times you'll walk off.

Like Bert said, you'd best do some reading and definitely climb with someone who's done it, because if you run into trouble on the second or third pitch (simple stuff like getting a rope stuck), it can become real serious real quick.. It's easy as hell though, there's nothin' to it.

Keep fit and have fun.

Oh, I also disgree with Bert in that you do NOT usually need two ropes to do multi-pitch. I've done tons, and they are setup for one 50 m (or more often now 60 m) rope.

[WRONG.....]

Well, if you are in Nova Scotia, you will not find any route in sports that are long enough to do a multi-pitch. Even in Quebec, I know only a couple ones, and they are both possible to do into one rope lenght, the only reason there is a belay station in between, it's because the route gets way harder on the secon pitch and most people do only the first one.

The best way to lead climb a multi-pitch is in trad, and it's a different approach of climbing.

Basically, you need two ropes to do some multi-pitch, or you need a reppel station every 30m max (rope of 60m). The leader climb the first pitch. He makes a belay station and belay his second (from the top) that take back all the equipment. The leader re-equiped can start the secon pitch and so on...

I think one of the best way to learn about leading multi-pitch is to go with someone who has the experience and learn from them. Books and boards gonna show you only one side of the medal. The reallity if often different. But if you want a good book, the bible is "mountaineering the freedom of the hills". The last edition (7th) is very good, but does not replace experience.

The best way to climb and to learn is to think safety first.

If you are arround halifax, we are often going out durring the week-end. The rock season is about to begin, I give an other sunday to ice climbing, and it's gonna be the rock season.

Enjoy your summer

Bert.

Oh my goodness there Bert....
You really shouldn't give beta of this type unless you really know what you are talking about.
My advise to the moderator of this site would be to delete this thread and/or Bert's post.
Very inaccurate crap!!

[martha]

hey i am still fairly new to the climbing scene and have never been outside yet. just wondering how does sport climbing work when it is more than one pitch? when the rope runs out and you can no longer climb up on belay, do you anchor and climber climbs up to meet you? and how do you get down. any links would help

Just get outside and climb with people who have experience. Since you have 'never been outside yet' it will all come to you very quickly once you do and you see how it is all done.

Books are great, but no replacement for experience.

[mitchleblanc]

Oh my goodness there Bert....
You really shouldn't give beta of this type unless you really know what you are talking about.
My advise to the moderator of this site would be to delete this thread and/or Bert's post.
Very inaccurate crap!!

Dude.. it's not THAT inaccurate.

[granite_grrl]

hey i am still fairly new to the climbing scene and have never been outside yet. just wondering how does sport climbing work when it is more than one pitch? when the rope runs out and you can no longer climb up on belay, do you anchor and climber climbs up to meet you? and how do you get down. any links would help

Just get outside and climb with people who have experience. Since you have 'never been outside yet' it will all come to you very quickly once you do and you see how it is all done.

Books are great, but no replacement for experience.

If you get outdoors with a leader you can get a good idea of how multipitch works.

When a leader gets to the top of a single pitch gear climb they'll generally set up and anchor (or there's already an anchor there...mitch, there are frequntly bolted anchors on trad climbs too depending on the area), and belay up their second. In multi pitch it's much the same...but once the second is belayed up and gear and such is sorted then the leader continues up and the second belays from that anchor point.

Its nice to be able to swap leads (the second you belay up leads the next pitch), but if you can work out a sytem then it normally doesn't take too long to reflake the rope and reorganize gear and have the same person lead every pitch (note - until you work out a system there is huge potential for a cluster-fuck at the anchor).

Single rope rappels vs double rope rappels vs walk offs depends on the area and the climb, consult your guide book carefully!

Rebecca

[mitchleblanc]

(or there's already an anchor there...mitch, there are frequntly bolted anchors on trad climbs too depending on the area)

Or wait... If there's bolts... It's not trad, it's mixed. Thanks for letting me (specifically me) know, though.

[Guest]

(or there's already an anchor there...mitch, there are frequntly bolted anchors on trad climbs too depending on the area)

Or wait... If there's bolts... It's not trad, it's mixed. Thanks for letting me (specifically me) know, though.

Meh, call it what you want. I'm just talking about bolts at the anchors though, placing gear the rest of the way up. I don't see a bolted belay as much different than belaying from slings on a tree or boulder, or two pins that have been bashed into the rock. Much the same if there were bolts for protction for the entire climb and you had to use a tree as an anchor, I'd call it a sport climb, not mixed.

Sorry mitch, but your previous post seemed to imply that you'd only find simple anchors (bolts, specifically) on pure sport climbs, not trying to pick you out from a crowd. I only used your name so that people could reference your thread if they were wondering why I was talking about this. Next time I'll use the quote function:

To lead multi-pitch sport routes is a million times easier than multi-pitch trad routes in fact: There will be bolted anchors!

[granite_grrl]

Crap, this was me...sorry.

(or there's already an anchor there...mitch, there are frequntly bolted anchors on trad climbs too depending on the area)

Or wait... If there's bolts... It's not trad, it's mixed. Thanks for letting me (specifically me) know, though.

Meh, call it what you want. I'm just talking about bolts at the anchors though, placing gear the rest of the way up. I don't see a bolted belay as much different than belaying from slings on a tree or boulder, or two pins that have been bashed into the rock. Much the same if there were bolts for protction for the entire climb and you had to use a tree as an anchor, I'd call it a sport climb, not mixed.

Sorry mitch, but your previous post seemed to imply that you'd only find simple anchors (bolts, specifically) on pure sport climbs, not trying to pick you out from a crowd. I only used your name so that people could reference your thread if they were wondering why I was talking about this. Next time I'll use the quote function:

To lead multi-pitch sport routes is a million times easier than multi-pitch trad routes in fact: There will be bolted anchors!

[seanT]

Renegade welcome to the wonderful world of learning how to climb on the internet. If you want to know more about lead climbing etc... We offer a class at Ground Zero that is very comprehensive. It is a 3 hour course that I would recomend to anyone who is thinking about getting into lead climbing. I know this is a shameless plug but its better than the spray fest that you are getting from everyone else.
SeanT
Owner Ground Zero Climbing Gym
PS there are many multipitch routes awaiting anyone who wants them at Cape Clear a mere 5 hour drive from Halifax!!And im not talking bout bogus "3" pitch routes like at Welsford.

[The Teth]

Although Bert’s response was not totally accurate, it was in good faith, and it prompted clarification from other climbers which I am sure has been very informative for many. As moderator I am certainly not going to delete such a comment on the prompting of an anonymous post.

I believe Jonathan and Becky put up a four pitch mixed route at Cape Clear. Not quite full on sport, but has lots of bolts on it, and the places you got to protect with trad gear are supposedly bomber. If someone wants a multi pitch sport route in Nova Scotia, I am sure there is plenty of potential at Cape Clear.

Good to hear that lead classes are available.

The Teth

[Bert]

Sorry for the miss-understanding!!!!

I guess I was innacurate on some point, I'm sorry. I guess my english communication is not 100% accurate.

I definetly think it's better to learn with a good course or with a good leader instead of internet post (the reason why not too much details in my post).

I meant by:

The best way to lead climb a multi-pitch is in trad, and it's a different approach of climbing.

That to know lead climbing in trad is a huge advantage for climbing multi-pitch.

I did not want to mean that trad climbing is easier, just meant that access to multi-pitch is easier if you trad climb. If there is something, trad is way more engaging than sports.

Ouff!! Hopefully you understood me. Sorry, speaking and writing is 2 very different thing to communicate a tought.

Thanks to every one that completed the informations, and I will try to be more precise next time.

Bert

[The Teth]

Good point. There are a lot more multi pitch climbs available to you if you can climb trad than if you are restricted to sport climbing.

[Ulysse]

You are right about welsford the longest climbs can be done via 70m rope and even then most routes are only 30m. Our guidebook is way off.

Cannon has some nice multipitch routes. Find someone with experience and check it out...have fun...

[mitchleblanc]

You are right about welsford the longest climbs can be done via 70m rope and even then most routes are only 30m. Our guidebook is way off.

Cannon has some nice multipitch routes. Find someone with experience and check it out...have fun...

You can't do cheekbone corner in one rope, can you? I find that hard to believe. Even if it was just due to rope drag, I can't imagine it. What about other routes, like that big prow/nose thing to the right?

Are you being sarcastic? I thought you were, now I'm not so sure. I realize I should be arguing with the original post saying welsford had no "real mulipitch", whatever that means.

70 m rope? Who carries a 70 m rope? You mean, 50 m and 20 m man... That's two pitches.

[The Teth]

Can you imagine climbing a pitch which required a 70 m rope? Between the wight of an extra 20 m of rope and the friction of the additional clips, how much would you be pulling on top of your own body weight by the time you got to the top?

[granite_grrl]

Can you imagine climbing a pitch which required a 70 m rope? Between the wight of an extra 20 m of rope and the friction of the additional clips, how much would you be pulling on top of your own body weight by the time you got to the top?

Not sure how much worse it would be than when you've streched a 60m to its max. I've had pitches where the rope drag is terrible, but if it's fairly strait and you place very little gear then its managable (only had this once though.....when in doubt, run it out!).

Hmm, I don't think I've ever met someone who uses a 70m rope though, are there certain applications where they're the cat's meow?

Rebecca

[mathieu]

Can you imagine climbing a pitch which required a 70 m rope? Between the wight of an extra 20 m of rope and the friction of the additional clips, how much would you be pulling on top of your own body weight by the time you got to the top?

Oh come on it can't be that bad, what do you do, climb in your boxer short to avoid dragging weight. Just kidding. But seriously weight of the rope while climbing (on a long approach however its nice to be light) is in my opinion a non issue unless you are pushing long 13's or 14's. Here is an example of where a long rope is nice.

Last years last climb of the season. 5 or 6 pitches of chossy chimney climb (Grillmair's Chimey on Yam for those interested in knowing) The climb has a section of 5.4/5.5 that was 110 metre long and then a short pitch of 5.6 that was 20metre long. So we have a 130metre section. The first comfortable belay seat (who says you need a 3 piece anchor??) we found was placed at 70 metre so a bit of simul climb was in order but for the next section the route wandered a bit (double ropes solved the rope drag) but as I got to the base of the 5.6 section I yelled how much rope, well no answer due to wind and so on. I know (thanks to a guidebook) that its roughly a 20metre pitch and we gaged that we had covered 70 metre. So I should know that I have just enough rope to reach the next "anchor" but who is to say that:

A) the pitches described in the book are exactly what they say (could be 132m).

B) The location of the first anchor (base of the 130m stretch of climbing)could be 4 metres lower than where someone else could of done an equally good anchor. It was a large ledge with many options. (now we are at 136m)

C) the ropes we have are said to be 60 metre but I think there is a +/- factor to take in account due to lenghts cut in factory, tie-in knots and the wandering nature of the route. (+/- 138m, so the 70 metre rope would give me peace of mind)

D) We could of covered only 65 metres in that first stretch (well in that case we are definatly hooped, a 70metre rope is not gonna save our ass here, that is just a bad judgement call and easily could of been avoided is someone was paying attention)

So I did a belay (an uncomfortable one where any movement on my part started a deluge of pebbles down a chimney that of course my friend was climbing up) and that extra belay probably added a 1/2 hour at least. And before someone replies and says "just simul climb the whole section of 110metre and save an hour". To each his own level of comfort I say.

Hmm, I don't think I've ever met someone who uses a 70m rope though, are there certain applications where they're the cat's meow?

Rebecca

Special applications are plentifull when you get on longer routes such as in the bugaboo's or in alpine (ice or rock) climbing where you strech out the 60m just to avoid making another anchor which will take you extra time. Wow talk about re-iterating the point I made above. Another place where 70m rope are nice, i'm speculating here folks, would be if you are doing some first ascents in the alpine.

Mathieu "BLA BLA, will that guy ever shut up" B.

[dcentral]

There's climbs in Skaha where it's only a single pitch but a 60 m rope isn't enough to get you back down to the ground.

[mathieu]

Actually in Kentucky's Red River Gorge, at the Motherlode Crag the sport climb are just shy 30m long but due to the insane overhanginess (is that even a word) you need to have a longer rope to get lowered or you just anchor in, pull the rope and rap down.The draws are all pre hung and have been for god knows how long, so you don't have to worry about retrieving them. THIS (scoll down to picture 31) is a good example but luckily its not as long.

sorry its a php site I can't link you directly to the picture, or at least I don't know how to.

[dcentral]

When we went last spring a friend bought 70 m rope for basically climb in Skaha. Now you don't need a 70 m for most of them. But some of the good ones you do, like Plum Line.

[mathieu]

When we went last spring a friend bought 70 m rope for basically climb in Skaha. Now you don't need a 70 m for most of them. But some of the good ones you do, like Plum Line.

Haha I think there is a Jon Large epic story associated with that climb.

[dcentral]

Ha, Jon and his epic stories.

Have you heard many of his exploits in Thailand?

[martha]

Mr. Large visited for xmas this year. We have heard many epics from thailand. funny how those women offering him 'things' kept coming back into the picture!