Most Unprecedented on Upper Tier

[Fred]

Does anyone know how to get a hold of P.Lloyd and/or J.Marceau?

They toproped a route called "Most Unprecedented 5.10a" a number of years back. I have toproped this route and think it is a sweet line worthy of a ground up ascent. I have seen one bolt hole on the route so I can only assume they were planning on it but just never got around to it. I would like to finish this project but don't want to do this without their approval.

[mathieu]

check your pm

[Dee]

I would like to finish this project but don't want to do this without their approval.

Fred, it's a free country and none of us own that rock. I think you should feel free to do whatever the heck you like....within reason of course. I never did understand how people believe that they can take possesion of a line of rock.
My argument would be what if i was a climber at Welsford and i never read the forum (which I rarely do), never read the guide book (never have) and never talked to anyone there....who's to say that I can't go up there with my own gun, brush, etc. and do what i like!?
Anyway, my two cents added without the intention of purposely offending anyone.
You've been doing a lot of work up there and I really appreciate it.
No offense to my buddy Pete!

[PaulB]

I never did understand how people believe that they can take possesion of a line of rock.

While there are exceptions (Ken Nichol being an extreme example), I don't think too many climbers actually think that way.

Contacting the first ascentionist (or at least making an honest effort) before adding/removing/modifying bolts and/or anchors on a route is a pretty commonly accepted tradition/courtesy.

[Fred]

I have contacted Peter Lloyd and he agreed but with the request that I keep the name. Hopefully I can get around to finish this great line this summer. I'll also be finishing "Hole in my pocket" with Ghislain's approval.

I agree, the rock is not theirs but I'm just being curtious and letting them know before I modify their route.

Sometimes an FA will choose to leave a route un-protected. Perhaps rock quality is an issue, or the route was done with and "R" or "X" rating. A perfect example is a short route I did on the stairway called "Operation Harding". A nice route with fun moves but only 30ft high or so. Too high to boulder but too short to bolt in my opinion. It has two pieces of gear which are enough to keep you off the deck if the piece doesn't pop. But I chose to leave the route as a FFA with "R" rating. Anothe route is John Bowles' route on Simpson Wall. In my opinion I would put three bolts on it and call it a sport route but John's style was to lead it with an "X" rating.

I think checking with the FA is good practice.

[The Teth]

I think part of the tradition of respecting the wishes of the first ascensionist is that it maintains some variety in the styles of routes available. Some people would rather see more bolts and some people would rather have scarier climbs with all natural protection. Without this tradition we might have an enthusiastic sport climber start bolting all the routes on a cliff, and then a trad purist might get upset and start pulling bolts, and then it could get really nasty. Allowing the first ascensionist to decide on style avoids nasty arguments over what should be done with a route.

I think the tradition makes sense. It is not so much that the first ascensionist owns the rock. It is more that someone has to have the final say on style to avoid anarchy, and giving the final say to the first ascensionist makes more sense to most climbers than any alternative system.

Teth

[Fred]

OMG!! I just toproped this route again today and it is AWESOME! I'll be back soon to bolt it.

Grade felt more like 5.9 and route will be all sport.

[Fred]

finished this line today

MOST UNPRECEDENTED 5.9 60'/S(6)/T
FFA: F.Berube, B.Turner 2006.10.22

Enjoy!

[Fred]

CORRECTION

what I thought was Most Unprecedented is in fact Mr Torpedo and what I called Dynomight is in fact Mos Unprecedented. Either way, I had spoken to both TR ascentionist prior to bolting these lines. So what is left is the two original lines "MrTorpedo" and "Most Unprecedented" but done ground-up.

Mr Torpedo 5.9 60'/S(6)/T
Start directly at the base of the ramp that leads up for "To Save The Princess".

Most Unprecedented 5.10a 60'/M(5)/R(2)
Betwee "MrTorpedo" and "D-Day"

Note: The above descriptions will be improved for the guidebook.

Ignore the Dynomight route description. I will keep the names of the two original TR routes. I think what lead to the confusion is the major grade discrepency from Chris and Mitch of 5.7 for MrTorpedo. More like 5.9.

[vbpad]

yeah i went out there yesterday expect to lead monsiour torpedo a nice and easy 5.7 and ended up finishing a route that 's harder than anything i've lead so far. it's interesting what you can do when you expect something easier.

[Burley]

I loved both of these routes and they are hands down two of my top 10 fav sport lines. Dry toolers also make the list. Between the routes Fred put up this summer and Sunnyside, I'll be busy for a while.

[Fred]

I think I prefer the movement on MrTorpedo over Most Unprecedented. But I like both routes.

check out "The Tango" next time you are down