corn'd n bung'd

[chameleon]

Hey all, what's the deal with the white streaks all over these boulders?
Looks like some high powered solvent has been applied to a lot of the start holds, resulting in stains streaking below them?
Pretty sure chalk wouldn't do this. Any ideas?
Looks pretty ugly IMO.

S

[Eager]

Is this for real? That's pretty low if someone is doing this. Come on where are the ethics? If you want to use solvents you can come to our place and help out with some cleaning.

P.S.

Where is Smizzle to get things going? this is a thread worthy of a discussion.........

[stoneseeker]

I've never heard of anyone around here using solvents to clean holds. And at Corn and Bung, where the holds are all already squeaky clean, why would anyone feel the need to dump stuff on the holds?? I have seen similar markings in Squamish right after a half day of rain though... White streaks of chalk liquefied by the rain leaves a graffiti stain in a vertical fashion under all the chalky holds. Corn and Bung gets a lot of traffic, and a lot of chalk, so is this a possibility?

[allan]

rock is quite clean in streaks under the holds; ie. something has killed the lichen.

[chameleon]

i was just speculating on a solvent being used.
but it certainly appears as though some kind of reaction is happening. bleach maybe? or maybe just a weird chalk reaction (never seen it before myself - mind you i just started climbing not that long ago )

will take some photos next time i happen to be there (which will probably be awhile)...does anyone have some shots handy - before/after perhaps?

Sean

p.s. props to Allan for sending Resurrection on Saturday!! it's a ways off for me i'm afraid.

[patzer]

You'll have to go a long way back - those streaks have been there since I started bouldering outside (at least 5 years ago now). I've heard rumours of bleach or similar things over the years, but never heard of any eye witnesses, so who knows.

I do notice the newer areas that have been developed don't have them though, only in the LOC, so chalk seems an unlikely explanation, and at least if bleach was used in the past, it seems to have stopped in the meantime!

[ben smith]

The white spots on the lower boulder around joe boxer are from me trying to climb in the rain, it seeps rather than washes down there so you end up with streaks, I figured it would be gone by now, next time out I'll give it a bit of a scrub. Not sure if thats all you saw or if there is more. C+B is getting alot of traffic these days, could just be a result of that

In terms of solvents I also use acetone to clean holds from grease and chalk although I haven't needed to scrub at C+B since its been good temps. Acetone dissolves grease, chalk, and assorted gunk and evaporates off in seconds cooling the rock, so doesn't leave streaks and you get a short period of good temps in the summer. I learned the practice from friends in the south where it gets scummy and heinous in the summer. If the acetone isn't hurting their soft sandstone boulders its not going to do much to granite. I only scrub holds that are free of lichen.

I'll stop if any one can give me a reason to that isn't based on some hippy dippy "solvents are baaaadddd" horseshit.

[stoneseeker]

I got no problems with small amounts of acetone to clean grimey holds of chalk and crud... people do it all the time in major bouldering areas that see too many people.

It would only be against my better judgement to dump bleach all over a rock to kill lichen on a face just cause I was too lazy to get out a wire brush. Just development ethics... but obviously that is not the case here.

I still think its just chalk.

[chameleon]

Just because "people do it all the time in major bouldering areas" doesn't mean it should be done here.

I know you didn't really mean it that way Luke, but I'm just sayin'. Acetone could be fine for all I know. But maybe it isn't. Or maybe the stain comes from some hippy dippy roaches strategically placed on key holds. Who would do such a thing?!.

Mainly, I just wanted to share my observations from having gone to these boulders for many years. I haven't been to C/B for about 2 years and the change to my eyes is quite dramatic (and ugly). Jason, perhaps you just haven't noticed cuz you're more of a frequent flyer to those boulderz.

Anyways, have a look next time with fresh eyes and form your own opinion.

Peace.
S

p.s. btw I personally like boulders with chalked holds all over them. this looks a little more industrial . but it mighta been the lenses in my new shades!!

[stoneseeker]

Oh, I'm with you Cassidy... If someone is dumping enough of anything (acetone or whatever) to marr the boulders and make ugly streaks I am against it regardless of whether I am considered a Hippy for it. I just dont think its Ben's acetone... unless something happened very recently, (which is possible) I think its just chalk, thats all.

[seanT]

Mabye John Bowles was there i hear he gets pretty "excited" around granite blocs.

[betaburgler]

Chalk is magnesia. Magnesia + water = magnesium hydroxide which is a strong electrolyte and a weak base.

According to wikipedia "Lichens (pronounced /ˈlaɪkən/,[1] sometimes /ˈlɪtʃən/[2]) are composite organisms consisting of a symbiotic association of a fungus (the mycobiont) with a photosynthetic partner (the photobiont or phycobiont), usually either a green alga (commonly Trebouxia) or cyanobacterium (commonly Nostoc)."

The question is who wins in a fight Magnesia or Lichen...

[Eager]

Not living in NS anymore I'm not sure my opinion counts so much but solvents on boulders sounds like bad hockey, and sets bad precedent. People may use it elsewhere but if it becomes commonplace then maybe it starts to have a bigger impact. Organic compound or not I'm pretty sure unless there is a botanist around we don't know the long term effects of acetone on lichen or anything else we are putting on boulders, maybe it reacts with the chalk or dilutes it when it rains creating streaks? If its the chalk that's the problem then folks should maybe try and clean off holds in high use areas. Corn n Bung is definitely one of the most impacted bouldering areas in NS, maybe the community needs to start thinking about how to lessen impact in high traffic areas like this?

NS is lucky to have wilderness climbing in beautiful places, something that makes it a unique place to climb don't let it go to s&*t!

[Fred]

I've been using puff on my trips to NS.

[Fred]

I'm told it's spelled *pof hahaha

[chameleon]

I've been using puff on my trips to NS

Hippy.

[seanT]

Chameleon...."new shades"? do you mean your bi focals?

[ben smith]

Acetone evaporates within seconds. I don't think it is running anywhere, or having some nebulous long term effects. Its not affecting the rocks, its not used where there is any lichen (long since dead from the chalk+scrubbing combo). Compare these unlikely effects with the obvious and clearly visible erosion from tons of people climbing.

[shoshonite]

Chalk is magnesia. Magnesia + water = magnesium hydroxide which is a strong electrolyte and a weak base.

According to wikipedia "Lichens (pronounced /ˈlaɪkən/,[1] sometimes /ˈlɪtʃən/[2]) are composite organisms consisting of a symbiotic association of a fungus (the mycobiont) with a photosynthetic partner (the photobiont or phycobiont), usually either a green alga (commonly Trebouxia) or cyanobacterium (commonly Nostoc)."

The question is who wins in a fight Magnesia or Lichen...

Lichens are highly specialized species, each rock type is going to have different species on it. Granites are also known as acidic rocks geologically, and tend to produce acidic soils/ growth medium, couple that with our northern climate which creates and acidic environment and acidification from the eastern seaboard and our local lichens are accustomed to acidic environment. As the betaburgler has burgled from wikipedia, climbing chalk is basic (dolomite/limestone) kicks the stuffing out of the little lichens and if you look at some of the more trafficed problems is fairly hard on the rock too.
-Brad

[stoneseeker]

Okok



so, in conclusion... Should we stop using chalk? Should we never use small amounts of acetone on particularly grimy holds? Perhaps pads are destroying waaaay too much plant life so we should stop using them too?

I think if anything we can just agree to create as little as impact as possible within reason. I think Nova Scotia does a good job of this as far as I've seen. I haven't seen the streaks Cassidy saw, and if they are from some solvent dumping, then that sucks, but it would be the first I've heard of it from this community. Back home in Terrace BC, an avid trad and sport climber/developer really wanted to climb a particularly dirty line on the middle of a large exposed face on the mountain, so he rapped down with a BUCKET of bleach and dumped it all the way down the route, leaving a very visible nasty white streak, pissing off the whole community. This is obviously destructive, irresponsible and selfish...

I think aside from the occasional litter I've found at boulders here, I've found this community to be very mindful and respectful.

If we didn't need solvent to clean the ridiculously dirty and overgrown boulders at Gibralter, then I think it's an unnecessary method of cleaning that should be abandoned altogether if anyone out there is still doing it on occasion.

[seanT]

I love the smell of solvent in the morning...smells like....... sending......

[Quinn]

Are we seriously debating the ecological impact of lichen removal? I stand firmly behind the leave no trace ethic of climbing, and environmental preservation, but lets have some perspective! Our planet is being raped to death and you hippies are worried about lichen? Raped to death. There are more productive uses of your talent, knowledge, and enthusiasm. Vote Green!

The gulf oil spill


Fukushima nuclear disaster


Amazon Deforestation


The Alberta Oil Sands


Great Pacific Garbage Patch (twice the size of Texas!!)

[Quinn]

Cleaning boulders with napalm would have a negligible environmental impact in the scheme of things.

[betaburgler]

What this thread has taught me:

1- Quinn is head hippy. Incidentally I couldn't find Waldo in any of those pictures...
2- Cleaning boulders with napalm is actually ok
3- Sean T sniffs solvents
5- Magnesia vs. Lichen - Magnesia wins
6- Sean C is getting really old and needs new bi-focals

[Eager]

I don't think my main concern was lichen, but, solvents getting into the ground, water, and visible effects of what they might be doing to boulders.

It only takes one concerned hiker to come across a place like corn and bung (which looks like a s^&*hole) pardon the pun, and then raises the alarm to a conservation group and then CNS and the LOC have a big access problem. This has happened before.

Anyway I'm more concerned about boulder photogenicity, and me looking good sending for my sponsors.

[Eager]

And yeah I am concerned about lichen removal and all those other things mentioned. You have to start somewhere. If there were 7 billion boulderers on the planet my guess is lichen destruction might become a big issue. I just think that as climbers we often take for granted the impacts we make on the environment because we perceive that climbing is an outdoor sport and is therefore environmentally friendly.

[chameleon]

If you really want to look good for the sponsors Chris, y'oughta get a pair of bi-focals. All the cool kids are wearing them.

And here's somethin' else to add to your list Nate:
7. "Causes redness, pain, drying and cracking of the skin.”

.............And y'all thought it was cause the rock was sharp.....really sharp


see Potential Health Effects - Skin Contact.......
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/a0446.htm

[fuchsl]

http://ezbase.org/PDF/MSDS-Granite-Crushed%20Stone.pdf

[Eager]

I wouldn't be surprised if inhalation of lichen particulate was good for you either, where's the MSDS?

PPE for boulder scrubbing

http://www.websoft-solutions.net/3m_Org ... -60923.htm

[Quinn]

You're right, it looks positively ghastly! The horror! I hear bush whacking through the LOC is a popular hiking destination and we ruined it