Parlee Brook - The Nova Scotia Invasion

[peter]

I am hoping to stir up an early morning (4:00 or 5:00 a.m.) convoy to New Brunswick next Sunday, March 13/05, for a long day trip to Parlee Brook and back (climb until dark, get back before midnight). There is more accessible ice in the world, but at least an annual visit to the playground of our western cousins seems in order. How many bodies would we have interested in going? A couple of meals at the Salisbury Irving, a longish but flat approach, a full choice of ice routes for multiple leaders and seconds, all of moderate grade, a smelly but satisfied return journey: what more could you ask for?

[martha]

fred and I will meet you in Sussex and we can go in together.

[Zamboni]

I would go, but I busted my ankle yesterday.

conan.

[C.Eager]

How did you manage to bust your ankle? That Sucks.

[brad w]

I will definately keep it on my mind. No other plans yet for next week.
Found a 40 or 50' line today on the south shore. Looks like it may go around M5, WI4. THink I may give it a go tomorrow. I'll report back and let you know.

[martha]

I would go, but I busted my ankle yesterday.

conan.

busted as in broke...or sprained??

that's aweful!! take care of it!! rest rest rest!!!

Cara

[Zamboni]

Ya, I was out at the Laundromat reaching for the top of Mouse Can't Stem and came off, landed and compressed my foot. Don't thinks its broke, but I still can't walk on it. Thinking about seeing the dock tomorrow.

Wish me luck.

Conan.

[Zamboni]

-k

[mathieu]

What is the Laundromat??

Being french I always take it literally so I pictured you in a laundromat reaching for a new brand of soap called "Mouse Can't Stem" and your hand peeled off the top of the dryer and BAM you hit the floor and busted your ankle. Doesn't make much sense now that I read it.

[Guest]

The Laundromat is the first bouldering area you come to in the LOC. Mouse can't stem is a problem that tops out about 15'high.

P.S. I did laundry friday.

conan.

[pulldown]

Conan

Sorry for the bad news about the injury. Speaking from someone who has been there. GET TO A DOCTOR! thinge can be a lot worse than you can imagine. Anyway i have crutches, a cane and if it comes to it a cast boot so you can take a shower without getting ruining your cast.

I tried your phone number today but it didn't ring through. call if you need anything.

PS. i'm looking for some plumbing supplies.

Todd

[Zamboni]

I had the phone turnd off While I was in the ER. Had an Xray done, but nothing came up. I think i just messed up some tissue. I'm using keiths camera/cane, and all is good.

Conan.

[climberwannabe]

parlee beach sounds baddass. I just got home from what turned into a night climb on the north shore. Fun fun. things are really comming along. There is a nice set of ice up hear boys and girls.

Stevo

Hey how far is parlee beach from hali???

[peter]

Parlee Brook (not beach): same distance as driving to Sussex, which is about 3.5 hours, plus a backroads drive and walk in.

[Isomer]

Does anyone have extra space in their car for this Sunday? Alternatively I could drive if there were more bodies than cars, but I'd rather not drive it alone - seems wasteful.

Ben

[peter]

Ben:

I should have room. cell. 456-4324.

Peter

[peter]

So, if you are wondering, looks like Mike was going up today (hopefully that happened!), and we have five more driving tomorrow morning. Peter

[peter]

Nice day out. Five from Nova Scotia, and Cara and Fred to show us the "newly renovated" way in. Thanks for coming out!

We did experience a few mishaps.

If you are going in soon, don't be alarmed by all the blood in the gully. 'Twas but a scratch. I am told that the emergency room in Sussex is surprisingly fast.

Left a screw and 'biner on the vertical wall directly across from the rappel, if anyone is looking for some booty.

Oh yes, and if you find a helmet that fell off a pack at dusk, please mount it on an appropriate stick, as a warning to others.

Peter

[martha]

We did experience a few mishaps.

If you are going in soon, don't be alarmed by all the blood in the gully. 'Twas but a scratch. I am told that the emergency room in Sussex is surprisingly fast.

Left a screw and 'biner on the vertical wall directly across from the rappel, if anyone is looking for some booty.

'Twas but a scratch'?

Peter, I dont' think you should down play this situation in any way.

David was on a climb way over his head. He fell once, perhaps an accident, but getting back on while pumped and laced with adreniline was the WRONG thing to do. He climbed past his previous fall height, on tool placements that I wouldn't have trusted on top rope. He was scared, pumped and not thinking. He didn't yell 'falling' or 'watch me' to his belayer, and his feet were all over the place not sticking to anything. Climbing on ONE double rope when the other was right there on the ground? Being in leashes, if he had gotten a solid placement he could have hung there until his hand fell off in the leash and gotten in a screw. What about down climbing?!?!?!? Instead, he kept going higher..with every step giving more potential for ground fall.
There were many things that he could have done differently.

Instead of thinking about his pride and getting his tool back, he should have been thinking about his belayer and what would happen if he took second fall and hit his partner with a tool or crampon. Or perhaps thinking about the rest of us if we had to do a rescue out of Parlee Brook.

Falls on ice are NOT like falls on rock. We all know the potential for injury is way higher, and the risks far greater. David DID fall a second time. He did smash his face into the ramp at the bottom of the climb, and he was lucky he didn't break both his legs or worse. He took at least 30 ft on the second fall. i was only about 30 ft away from him so saw it all in full color. I was belaying at the time so couldn't go help or otherwise.

I've seen people fall. Big falls on trad, on sport, I've been part of a rescue in welsford in the early fall where the weather was great and we had 15 people to carry the litter. Yesterday we wouldn't have been so lucky. I've seen people get hurt bad, bleed, and cry and I've falled far and have missed a hold or gotten pumped...but NOT ON ICE.

I don't intend to be mean or hurtful to David, and I truely hope his is okay. But his lack of experience and insight put us all at risk yesterday.

A good climber is one who knows when they are in over their heads and doesn't put themselves or others at risk. a really good climber is one that can keep their head on in sticky situations. It is not about climbing hard grades, it is about being safe.

David did not show the traits of a really good climber yesterday.

As for his ice screw and biner, I offered to rappel off from a tree above his gear and retrieve it for him. He declined the offer. Pride again?

cara

[Fred]

I agree.

David,

First off, I sincerely hope that you are ok. Cara and I were ready to offer any assitance following your first fall. We really wished you wouldn't have gotten back on and try it a second time. I belive you put us all at risk yesterday and not taking/wanting our help to redeem your pride (your words exactly) left us both very sour. We hope you are ok but your second fall yesterday was completely preventable and NOT an accident. I appologize for leaving Parlee yesterday before knowing that you guys were out safely but you pushed us away when we offered help. Please understand that all of your guys' safety was in our best interest. Yesterday's event could have been much worse and should not be taken lightly.

I'm sorry for being harsh but it was not a good scene.

Sincerely,

Fred

[Fred]

Left a screw and 'biner on the vertical wall directly across from the rappel, if anyone is looking for some booty.
Peter

On another note. For safety reasons I do not recommend anyone use the screw that was left on Yellow Pillar yesterday if they find it. It has taken two severe 'almost' factor 1.0 falls and is likely bent/damaged and not safe.

[peter]

The screw I left was lowered off. It didn't take any falls.

Cara/Fred: neither of you know Dave well enough to write posts like these. I suggest you delete them. They amount to opinionated flaming where we come from.

You may disagree, and you run the site, but they are way over the top, in my opinion. I don't recall reading point by point critiques of technique and belay when one of your own took a nasty ice fall last year. It is just rude.

Dave will seek and receive feedback from his climbing partners, whom are also his friends, and will learn from the experience. Good neighbours know when to butt in on, and when to stay out of, family matters of acquaintences next door. Please be a good neighbour, unless your opinion is asked for.

Peter

[martha]

I am not writing a post based on opinion Peter. i am writing a post based on what I witnessed first hand. A very scared climber making a big mistake that could have put us all in a horrible situation.

I had no critique for the belay. Thom did a fine job. You have to understand peter, that when stuff like this happens when I am around, my life and well being as well as that of my partner is also at stake. We wanted nothing more than for everyone to be safe.

I feel that climbers are part of a big family, and I have accepted critiques by lots of climbers I don't know, I can accept them from people with more experience or a different perspective than me because I want, bottom line, to be safe.

Thank you for clarifiying that the screw left was one that was lowered off.

Last years situation was also discussed in great detail in a number of ways by many many climbers and others involved. this forum did not exist at that time.

[peter]

I hoped you would have actually reflected on what I said in my last post, rather than instant replying as you just did. I have nothing more to say, except flame away.

[Fred]

Peter,

Cara and I had both agreed not to mention a word untill one of you did and we didn't. We entirely expected that what happened yesterday would be brushed off as a near miss and you did. We simply expressed our point of view as we saw it. You should have avoided posting about it if you didn't want to be critiqued.

There is no flame here. Simply a reply to your initial post. This forum is for discussion and we are having a SERIOUS one about climbing safety since YOU brought it up.

Last year's incident about one of our ice climbers and my fall two years ago, are in my opinion, not the same for reasons which we stated. Accidents are accidents and yesterday was not one.

This has nothing to do with being a good neighbour. Cara and I are two individuals and you people are as well. We are talking to you climber to climber.

In the end. No one was seriously hurt and we are glad you are all ok but this should not be taken lightly and that is all we were trying to say.

I applogize for speaking too quickly about the screw, I only assumed... Everything else I stand by 100%.

Sincerely,

Fred

[mike]

Sounds to me like everyone is a little wound up after seeing a bit of blood.

What's missing here is some realism. Everyone is ok. The what if's arn't required as none of them occurred.

Sure there may have been things done differently but whatever- they were done the way they were.

I don't think that bashing is the way forward. Perhaps some critical analysis of the situation, maybe some advice for the future- positive stuff.

People make mistakes- that's just the way it goes. Flaming people is just adding to the number of mistakes stemming from this one incident.

Let's try and learn from this and grow from it rather than dsrawing lines in the sand so that everyone has to pick sides.

Are we a community of climbers or a bunch of never erring perfectionists?

Mike

ps- we were there on Sat., maybe not the right spot- I dunno. We followed snowshoe tracks to some ice and decided that it wasn't worth comming back to for a second day. It kinda looked like the pic that we had- but not really. Anyone see our footprints? Does the forensic evidence point to us being in the right place?

[Fred]

Mike,

we saw snowshoe tracks on our way out If you were in a 150ft deep gully with steep walls on both sides then you were in the only gully around there I think. But you must not have found it because I think you definitely would have been back. But perhaps no.

[martha]

wound up after seeing a bit of blood? Hardly.

I watched fred hit a ledge and we thought his back was broken for a rescue a year and a half ago. This weekends blood was nothing compared to that.

You are right. the IF'S didn't happen. and i am so glad that they didn't.

But they could have so brushing it off as 'just a scratch' isn't good. I think talking about it is.


on your other note:

If you think you shouldn't have went back for a second day...you were in the wrong place.
I saw your snowshoe tracks on the way out, but didn't see them all the way to the climbing....you must have been off track a bit.

Cara

[Fred]

You may disagree, and you run the site...

If your moderator feels it is innapropriate they will edit. This community forum is moderated by others for that exact reason.

[mike]

huh- we wern't wearing snowshoes- we followed showshoers tracks.

Definitly sounds like we were in the wrong spot.

Booooooooo