I see on the forum that CNS has decided to vote against FREE storage of thier gear. What the hell is wrong with you people? I offered you storage of the gear at Ground Zero or at my house both are easily accessed morning,noon and night and free. But instead CNS seems to want to blow $40/month to store thier gear elsewhere? Please can someone give me 1 good reason why CNS is not taking advantage of this offer?
confused....
Sean
CNS gear storage
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CNS gear storage
by Isomer » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:30 pm
The only reason I can see for not storing gear at the gym or someone's house is an insurance issue, but since this obviously was not an issue that prevented the gear being stored at Todd's house, I think the idea of paying to store the gear is ludicrous.
I mean, $480 per year translates to approximately 96 bolts w/ hangers, averaging 8 bolts per new route you are looking at a potential for 12 new routes a year. This seems like a more prudent use of scarce financial resources. Or the money could be used for purchasing new gear. Or revamping the pathetic excuse for the CNS website. Or... The more useful options seem endless.
Ground Zero is open 7 days a week. If someone cannot get their act together to go by the gym a day in advance to needing the gear then I say nuts to them.
I mean, $480 per year translates to approximately 96 bolts w/ hangers, averaging 8 bolts per new route you are looking at a potential for 12 new routes a year. This seems like a more prudent use of scarce financial resources. Or the money could be used for purchasing new gear. Or revamping the pathetic excuse for the CNS website. Or... The more useful options seem endless.
Ground Zero is open 7 days a week. If someone cannot get their act together to go by the gym a day in advance to needing the gear then I say nuts to them.
- Isomer
Sounds silly don't it.Re: CNS gear storage
by mitchleblanc » Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:32 pm
seant wrote:I see on the forum that CNS has decided to vote against FREE storage of thier gear. What the hell is wrong with you people? I offered you storage of the gear at Ground Zero or at my house both are easily accessed morning,noon and night and free. But instead CNS seems to want to blow $40/month to store thier gear elsewhere? Please can someone give me 1 good reason why CNS is not taking advantage of this offer?
confused....
Sean
I can think of one good reason, and that is that your house is not accessible 24 hours a day, every day, no matter how much you have good intentions, and neither is Ground Zero, really.
Further, your house is not "neutral ground", and putting the gear at your house puts you in charge of the gear, to some degree, which maybe people don't want.
Those are two good possible reasons, and 1 good reason, I think.
Bouldering is a dish best served cold.
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Re: CNS gear storage
by Isomer » Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:48 pm
I have to say that this is vintage Nova Scotia backwardsness, and nobody will probably want to climb with me after saying this, but it needs to be said. Why waste money, when a responsible alternative that is FREE is available. But hey, the government pays for CNS costs, and other provinces pay the equilization payments that allow the Nova Scotia government to dole out money in a wasteful manner.
The gym is open approximately 6 to 8 hours a day, 7 days a week. The outdoor club that I was previously a member of had gear hours for two hours a night, one night a week, and surprisingly we managed to borrow gear as needed. All someone needs to do is have minute amounts of forethought, and go to Ground Zero one day in advance.
There are obvious logistical problems with a storage container...how does everyone get access to the gear, and more importantly what prevents someone from taking more than what they say they signed out and then blaming the loss of gear on someone else. Gear like this needs a gear master to some degree.
"Neutral ground," ha ha ha. Last time I went near Sean he did not try to bite me, yell, scream, or even hump my leg. Nor is his wife Kate a rabid biter.
It is a waste of money. It is a waste of money in an area of the country that cannot afford to waste money. It is a waste of money by an area of the country that has a notorious reputation for wasting money. And on a small scale this is a classic example of that type of wanton spending.
Grow some leadership. Store the gear for free. Manage to deal with making it to the gym in a 6 hour time span on any given day. Spend the money on something that maters. And if you cannot think of something useful to spend the money on - give it to charity!
The gym is open approximately 6 to 8 hours a day, 7 days a week. The outdoor club that I was previously a member of had gear hours for two hours a night, one night a week, and surprisingly we managed to borrow gear as needed. All someone needs to do is have minute amounts of forethought, and go to Ground Zero one day in advance.
There are obvious logistical problems with a storage container...how does everyone get access to the gear, and more importantly what prevents someone from taking more than what they say they signed out and then blaming the loss of gear on someone else. Gear like this needs a gear master to some degree.
"Neutral ground," ha ha ha. Last time I went near Sean he did not try to bite me, yell, scream, or even hump my leg. Nor is his wife Kate a rabid biter.
It is a waste of money. It is a waste of money in an area of the country that cannot afford to waste money. It is a waste of money by an area of the country that has a notorious reputation for wasting money. And on a small scale this is a classic example of that type of wanton spending.
Grow some leadership. Store the gear for free. Manage to deal with making it to the gym in a 6 hour time span on any given day. Spend the money on something that maters. And if you cannot think of something useful to spend the money on - give it to charity!
- Isomer
by mothecat » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:25 pm
Listen dudes,
Anybody who has volunteered with CNS knows exactly why they have decided against storing the gear with Sean. The list of reasons is truely endless. CNS always takes the high road and seems to have adopted a policy of not commenting about his crap on the message board. Fortunately there are bottom feeders like me around.
Want to know more? Join CNS and try dealing with this guy on anything from Boulderfest, to comps, to certification.
Sorry Sean. You can't stone wall the organization at every turn, and try to smell rozy by offering something you know they'll refuse.
Jonathan
Anybody who has volunteered with CNS knows exactly why they have decided against storing the gear with Sean. The list of reasons is truely endless. CNS always takes the high road and seems to have adopted a policy of not commenting about his crap on the message board. Fortunately there are bottom feeders like me around.
Want to know more? Join CNS and try dealing with this guy on anything from Boulderfest, to comps, to certification.
Sorry Sean. You can't stone wall the organization at every turn, and try to smell rozy by offering something you know they'll refuse.
Jonathan
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Topic review
by Isomer » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:55 pm
Says you. Personally, from reading the posts on this forum from various CNS executive members it appears that anyone who has a contrary opion to the executive orThe list of reasons is truely endless.
can be branded as troublesome. It appears that CNS seriously lacks transparency. I would stonewall you aswell if you made foolish decisions like the aforementioned gear storage on a regular basis. This issue smacks more of personal grudges, and ridiculousness that I have come to expect on this board, than of real logic addressing the need for storage. I repeat, in a storage setting nothing will stop someone from taking tons of gear and then only signing out a rope.judge
The high road would be to try storing the gear at the gym. If Sean humps your leg on the way in to borrow a rope then make the point of wasting Ontario citizen's tax dollars on a storage. With leadership such as this, CNS cannot hope to build a member base if it so quickly willing to flush those member fees down the toilets.
- Isomer
by mothecat » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:34 pm
Isomer do your homework. Mitt is past president of CNS. Is his opinion really objective? 96 bolts? Get a grip, what does that have to do with anything if an area is closed? Don't you think an organized united front is important? Whant to start one yourself, or make the existing organization better? Think Sean should be in charge?
Not transparent? Go to the meeting and you'll find out where every penny goes. I think you'll discover that some even went to pay for for disenfranchised kids to climb at a certain would be storage facility.
The website is crappy, I'll give you that. Why don't you make a new one?
Mo
Not transparent? Go to the meeting and you'll find out where every penny goes. I think you'll discover that some even went to pay for for disenfranchised kids to climb at a certain would be storage facility.
The website is crappy, I'll give you that. Why don't you make a new one?
Mo
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by martha » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:16 am
For anyone who wants to help out with the Board of Directors for CNS, the AGM is April 26th. See you there.
Last year, I came from Fredericton to attend the AGM. Why you ask? though I live in New Brunswick now, I am a Nova Scotian (born and raised in Digby, graduated from University in Halifax), I am a climber, and enjoy climbing in NS. I wanted to see where the board was heading, what their plans were, and offer help in my areas of expertise if needed. I am an ex-Officio director. a voice from out of province. Yet a voice tied to the NS area.
There might have been 20 people at the board meeting last year. If you are concerned about how it is being run, or what we do at board meetings or want to share your 2 cents with us, then come on down. We'd love to see you. Any of you. All of you. Though to have a vote at the AGM meeting you must be a member, and I know, as membership coordinator, that some of your memberships have run out. An email is being composed as we speak that will notify those who are not current.
We are constantly doubling up on duties, taking on more volunteer work than we should on top of our already busy lives with families and work. But we do it because WE CARE. Not because we are some group of Nazis who want to take over the NS climbing world. give me a break.
We take on more than we should, because no one else is there offering it up. Many of us have differing views on the board, come from different climbing backgrounds and have different value sets. Some of us may not even get along so well. But with all that, we feel we can come to some fairly logical decisions as we are all adults with one common tie....the Nova Scotia climbing community, its betterment, its sustainability and its safety. There are reasons behind every decision we make.
As for transparency....All members of CNS may attend any meeting of the board and with advance notice, may even present an issue or concern to the board for review. We are 100% transparent.
Last year, I came from Fredericton to attend the AGM. Why you ask? though I live in New Brunswick now, I am a Nova Scotian (born and raised in Digby, graduated from University in Halifax), I am a climber, and enjoy climbing in NS. I wanted to see where the board was heading, what their plans were, and offer help in my areas of expertise if needed. I am an ex-Officio director. a voice from out of province. Yet a voice tied to the NS area.
There might have been 20 people at the board meeting last year. If you are concerned about how it is being run, or what we do at board meetings or want to share your 2 cents with us, then come on down. We'd love to see you. Any of you. All of you. Though to have a vote at the AGM meeting you must be a member, and I know, as membership coordinator, that some of your memberships have run out. An email is being composed as we speak that will notify those who are not current.
We are constantly doubling up on duties, taking on more volunteer work than we should on top of our already busy lives with families and work. But we do it because WE CARE. Not because we are some group of Nazis who want to take over the NS climbing world. give me a break.
We take on more than we should, because no one else is there offering it up. Many of us have differing views on the board, come from different climbing backgrounds and have different value sets. Some of us may not even get along so well. But with all that, we feel we can come to some fairly logical decisions as we are all adults with one common tie....the Nova Scotia climbing community, its betterment, its sustainability and its safety. There are reasons behind every decision we make.
As for transparency....All members of CNS may attend any meeting of the board and with advance notice, may even present an issue or concern to the board for review. We are 100% transparent.
The phrase "working mother" is redundant. ~Jane Sellman
If a husband speaks in the woods, and his wife is not there to hear him...is he still wrong?
If a husband speaks in the woods, and his wife is not there to hear him...is he still wrong?
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by mitchleblanc » Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:12 am
renegade wrote:ahahahhaa
mitch got shut down
Euh... yeah. i was just (in a friendly manner) suggestion why maybe CNS wasn't going with the ground zero option. Totally not caring either way, was just making some small talk..
i guess I got "shut down"? whatever.
Bouldering is a dish best served cold.
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mitchleblanc - Posts: 342
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Re: CNS gear storage
by Isomer » Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:34 am
Transparency can be defined as: the full, accurate, and timely disclosure of information. Suggesting that the gear needed to be stored in a storage container setting because of access issues 24x7, when the real reason is a personal tiff with Sean, is not transparent. No one on this board wants to address the direct of issue of needing to store the gear somewhere, of the fact that spending money to do so would be wasteful, nor of the serious logistical implication that I have raised. Instead, as has been come to be expected, people respond with personal attacks and obfuscation.
If you look at the BC Climber's Access Society, it is run in quite a different manner, with integration of the climbing gyms as members. Aswell, as a broad spectrum of climbers, bouldering to trad. Not having any real attachments to anyone personally because I just moved here, my opinion comes from an outsider's perspective.
What I hope is that you do not have any serious access issues, becuase I do not think that CNS would be capable of dealing with them, since they clearly cannot deal with a simple issue of gear storage. In fact, the threatened crag might have been developed by someone you don't like, and so then what, it wouldn't be worth saving?
Yes, access should be the fundamental objective of CNS. However, judging from Peter's post in a separate topic, CNS does not perform well here either. How can members expect action on access, when CNS cannot manage to solve a simple storage issue in a cost-effective manner. A united front is indeed important, but when you make logistical decisions out of personal likes and dislikes of other people, and not out of logic it undermines any potential of forming this common front.Get a grip, what does that have to do with anything if an area is closed? Don't you think an organized united front is important?
If you look at the BC Climber's Access Society, it is run in quite a different manner, with integration of the climbing gyms as members. Aswell, as a broad spectrum of climbers, bouldering to trad. Not having any real attachments to anyone personally because I just moved here, my opinion comes from an outsider's perspective.
What I hope is that you do not have any serious access issues, becuase I do not think that CNS would be capable of dealing with them, since they clearly cannot deal with a simple issue of gear storage. In fact, the threatened crag might have been developed by someone you don't like, and so then what, it wouldn't be worth saving?
- Isomer
by denise » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:12 pm
actually,
the decision was based on access - 24/7.
i am on the board, live approximately one kilometer from sean's house, and also offered to store it at my house.
however, becuase of access issues, it was decided that this would not be the best option.
denise
the decision was based on access - 24/7.
i am on the board, live approximately one kilometer from sean's house, and also offered to store it at my house.
however, becuase of access issues, it was decided that this would not be the best option.
denise
- denise
ACCESS?
by Guest » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:27 pm
how can you honestly say that the vote was based on ACCESS, if Jonathan already said that it was based on past history with SeanT?
a storage facility might well have 24/7 access, but are the people with the keys accessible 24/7? most likely not.
as far as I know, Ground Zero's hours have been the same since they opened. can't people plan one day in advance if they need the gear? you can't expect cns members to believe that those select people with keys to the storage facility will be available at the drop of a hat. are you going to post everyone's phone numbers, or will there just be one lucky person who holds the key? some things to think about before you claim the vote was based on best access...
a storage facility might well have 24/7 access, but are the people with the keys accessible 24/7? most likely not.
as far as I know, Ground Zero's hours have been the same since they opened. can't people plan one day in advance if they need the gear? you can't expect cns members to believe that those select people with keys to the storage facility will be available at the drop of a hat. are you going to post everyone's phone numbers, or will there just be one lucky person who holds the key? some things to think about before you claim the vote was based on best access...
- Guest
by Isomer » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:12 pm
actually,
the decision was based on access - 24/7.
i am on the board, live approximately one kilometer from sean's house, and also offered to store it at my house.
however, becuase of access issues, it was decided that this would not be the best option.
denise
Ha, ha, ha. Sounds like someone is trying to form some legitimacy given that they know that they do not have a leg to stand on. Totally wasteful use of other people's money.
Would you personally pony up the $480 dollars to make the gear "accessible" 24/7 or would you opt for the free option?
- Isomer
by The Mitt » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:40 pm
As much as I believe that paying for storage is silly. I also think that if Denise says her decision to vote was based on access I believe her. In my personal view she is one of the few(that means more than one) that are not on the board for personal gain.
Mitt
Mitt
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by martha » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:08 pm
The Mitt wrote:As much as I believe that paying for storage is silly. I also think that if Denise says her decision to vote was based on access I believe her. In my personal view she is one of the few(that means more than one) that are not on the board for personal gain.
Mitt
Personal Gain?
What do any of us have to gain personally by being on the board? It is volunteer work, done out of the goodness of our hearts for the benefit of the climbing community. At least it is for me.
I can't imagine what any of the others would have to gain from sitting on the board.
The phrase "working mother" is redundant. ~Jane Sellman
If a husband speaks in the woods, and his wife is not there to hear him...is he still wrong?
If a husband speaks in the woods, and his wife is not there to hear him...is he still wrong?
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Board
by peter » Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:02 pm
Okay, how about Denise is the only voting member of the Board free of personal animosity? Not totally true, but it makes more sense. It was a "we don't trust Sean" decision. Not about hours of access. I was there. Leave it at that. I opted to abstain, which is the coward's way out. It is done. Peter
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by tracstarr » Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:50 am
wow, the community around here is really starting to show its colors. there is way too many personal grudges for one reason or another. this sucks. I mean why would it be a 'we can't trust sean' issuse? that's pathetic. I can't believe for a minute that anyone would have a trust issuse with sean T. What's he gonna do? sell off the gear? hide it? let it be taken? I don't think so. And so what if he doesn't meet eye to eye on other CNS issues. He's willing to help with this one.... so let him. But of coarse, who am i to give my opinion or stand up for someone else.
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by The Teth » Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:57 pm
Isomer:
If you want a straight answer, then email me your phone number and I will discuss this issue with you. My address is tethc@yahoo.com
Teth Cleveland
If you want a straight answer, then email me your phone number and I will discuss this issue with you. My address is tethc@yahoo.com
Teth Cleveland
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by saF » Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:26 am
Not that I plan to use the gear... In PEI, I can just shove the bolts into the so-called "rock" with my tongue!
But but what is the process to get the gear from the paid-for storage? Whose house do we have to find and get to when someone is there to get a Key? Where is the storage place and what are its hours?
Since it sounds like this is how it will be, give us the process to access the gear.
saF
But but what is the process to get the gear from the paid-for storage? Whose house do we have to find and get to when someone is there to get a Key? Where is the storage place and what are its hours?
Since it sounds like this is how it will be, give us the process to access the gear.
saF
Scott Ferguson
Cornwall, PE
Cornwall, PE
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