Diode 5.8 R

[Dom]

Hey I climbed Diode (new route on Stairway) on Saturday morning and I feel that it's definitely an R rated route. The crux is 10-15 feet up, unprotected and a fall from there would make you stumble down a few small cliffs. I would also say that the route is more like 30 feet tall, not 45 feet.

Aside from that it's a nice warm-up, as a top-rope. Thanks for cleaning it.

[Fred]

why is it not bolted? seems like a waste since no one will bring their rack up there.

[cory]

Fred: Stairway, as in "between Joe's Garage and Upper Tier/The Attic at CL" lots of people take trad gear there.

Dom: To be fair the climb was originally about 4' shorter. I trundled a stack of wobbly blocks from the base, which may also have made the ledge narrower in the process (doubtful). What started as one block, became another, then another...

Though I don't feel I altered the route, I apologize if I made the situation worse. I feared a trip/tip/slip down or accidentally kicking a rock down onto someone on the trail, I think I did the right thing. I had done it before and I'll most likely do it again.

This was done after I climbed it, so I cannot and will not comment on the rating nor the appropriateness of a bolt.

[Dom]

Fred: Stairway, as in "between Joe's Garage and Upper Tier/The Attic at CL" lots of people take trad gear there.

Dom: To be fair the climb was originally about 4' shorter. I trundled a stack of wobbly blocks from the base, which may also have made the ledge narrower in the process (doubtful). What started as one block, became another, then another...

There were cheater stones on that route???
I'm definitely glad you trundled those Goodman!

Fred I don't know what stairway you were thinking about hehe

I'm not suggesting that the FA should put a bolt, I'm just saying that a 5.9 trad climber might get in trouble if he tries to onsight this climb thinking that the gear is PG as it says in the new route guide thread.
I didn't crap my pants when I did it but I was like WTF the gear here blows donkey arse, better run it out on granular crystally friction moves...

[Fred]

woops! lol

I was thinking of that new trad route at Sunnyside. Obviously I read that too quickly. hehe

disregard my previous comment

[Pierre]

I climbed this last year and thought that the grading was quite accurate. My only complaint was that the climb was not long enough.

I do not recall having a hard time protecting this climb and I'm by no means a bold trad climber. If I remember right I was quite relaxed and comfortable doing this climb.

[cory]

donkey arse!

Dom: not cheater blocks, just that the traffic exposed the natural "ledge" a bit and revealed it wasn't one piece, rather a flat-topped jumble of blocks that rattled and slid.

Pierre: I concur; wish it was longer. That was my real motivation for the excavation . Now that it's 4' taller, get on it again!

[cory]

Just reread your original post Dom. Is it possible you started one ledge to high? I only remember one short cliff below it, and 45' seems accurate by my memory.

[Andrew]

The route has not been bolted because I fear the wrath of the bolt choppers and police so I decided to leave it natural.

I agree, the route on the right (Diode) has no real protection until your are through the hard sections. I wanted to put maybe two bolts on this route to make it safer and have more traffic.

I'll see about getting bolts installed if everyone can agree to let that be done. Someone makes a fuss about the bolts, I will not be happy.

[Dom]

Just reread your original post Dom. Is it possible you started one ledge to high? I only remember one short cliff below it, and 45' seems accurate by my memory.

No I started at the bottom. Maybe it is 45 feet, I dunno. All routes in CL are estimation anyways. We should bring measuring tape while new routing hehe

You're right, there is only one short cliff, then the trail but then after is a bigger cliff. So if you fell, there would be a chance of falling far. I had one piece of pro in before I left the ground so I guess the second furthest cliff wouldn't be an issue.

The route has not been bolted because I fear the wrath of the bolt choppers and police so I decided to leave it natural.

You are the FA so do what you want, as I said I didn't start this thread to make anyone put a bolt on this route, I just wanna warn new trad leaders about the potential danger of this route. If you decide to put a bolt, it will be ethically correct as it is a spot where natural pro doesn't fit, and you are the FA, free to decide the nature of the climb. If you decide against it, it will be your choice as well and as FA you have that choice. The only thing is if I was the FA, I find that I would have the moral obligation to say that this route is R because if you blow the crux, you'll deck and maybe tumble. Pierre disagrees and that's fine.That is his opinion. I'd be interesting to see what others that have led this route think. Greg Kelly?

[Andrew]

Diode 5.8 PG-R 35'/N/T
FA: A. Martin, E. Fox 12 Oct 2009
FFA: G. Kelly, A. Martin 16 May 2010
Found on the Stairway Wall, around the corner from the existing routes, near a large fallen tree. Climb the clean streak starting with a smooth slab then moving over horizontal cracks finishing at tree anchor. Takes your smallest cams.

^^

The above is how I have it stated on my personal climbing website for the grading, etc. Could FRED please update the following information based on this above detail?

FA & FFA names and dates, PG-R or R rating, 35' height. The description you have is fine and more acurrate than mine, so leave that.

Since it's such a short route and the protection doesn't start till half way up, I was unsure as to put it as a PG or R. For those who have climbed this, do you think putting a straight 'R' would be best unless a bolt is installed?

----

Has anyone climbed Farad 5.8 to the left of it? It protects better and is really fun. I climbed it Saturday in the rain. Amazing grip even in the wet.

----

Just reread your original post Dom. Is it possible you started one ledge to high? I only remember one short cliff below it, and 45' seems accurate by my memory.

No I started at the bottom. Maybe it is 45 feet, I dunno. All routes in CL are estimation anyways. We should bring measuring tape while new routing hehe

You're right, there is only one short cliff, then the trail but then after is a bigger cliff. So if you fell, there would be a chance of falling far. I had one piece of pro in before I left the ground so I guess the second furthest cliff wouldn't be an issue.

The route has not been bolted because I fear the wrath of the bolt choppers and police so I decided to leave it natural.

You are the FA so do what you want, as I said I didn't start this thread to make anyone put a bolt on this route, I just wanna warn new trad leaders about the potential danger of this route. If you decide to put a bolt, it will be ethically correct as it is a spot where natural pro doesn't fit, and you are the FA, free to decide the nature of the climb. If you decide against it, it will be your choice as well and as FA you have that choice. The only thing is if I was the FA, I find that I would have the moral obligation to say that this route is R because if you blow the crux, you'll deck and maybe tumble. Pierre disagrees and that's fine.That is his opinion. I'd be interesting to see what others that have led this route think. Greg Kelly?

[anderfo]

No I started at the bottom. Maybe it is 45 feet, I dunno. All routes in CL are estimation anyways. We should bring measuring tape while new routing hehe

Hehe. Why don't you guys measure the routes in meters, or the climbing ropes in feet?
Then you could skip the measuring tape and bring a rope instead...fold the 60m rope a few times and it will be approx. 15m

[GKelly]

It's good to see this route getting traffic. I think you are right about the "R" grade Dom. There are two very small cam placements in the first 15 feet. They are very difficult to place just perfect and even then I'm not sure they could hold a good/bad fall.
This being said. I don't think the route should be bolted. The R rating should keep people on their toes and prevent unsespecting victims. Given the ease of access to the top of the route to set up a top rope and check out the gear / climbing it just doesn't seem right to fill the nice clean (thanks Andrew) rock with metal.

Sorry if you got scared Dom...... "wink"

Andrew if you bolt that route you are a huge pussy....... also "wink"

PS. I, Greg Kelly, in no way intended to offend any scaredy cat pebble wrasslers with the above comments.

[cory]

Great point, Anders. Next guidebook author, take note!
(though a 60m rope ≈ 200 feet and the same origami/math can be applied)

[*Chris*]

Great point, Anders. Next guidebook author, take note!
(though a 60m rope ≈ 200 feet and the same origami/math can be applied)

I was thinking the same thing. Math is pretty flexible about units. My own math is usually pretty flexible about results too!

[GKelly]

pebble wrasslers? did I get edited? I guess I can adjust my filter (or re-install). My apologies for the offensive language.

[Stacey]

Not to stir the pot too too much - but realistically how many leaders are climbing 'R' rated routes?

generally the leaders I'm with by-pass R routes...

a shame for this 'awesome' route to go unclimbed because of a bolt.

[STeveA]

If you can't stick clip a climb from the ground making it safe to top rope all the way up, I think it should be rated as 'R'. It would be irresponsible for anyone with less than 37 years experience to attempt any routes that could not be protected this way.

[GKelly]

Stacey,

Stir away! I think it's great this is being discussed before the steal goes in.
I agree with you in most cases. I am by no means a bold climber. This route, in my opinion, is an exception. The top of the route can be accessed in under 1 minute from the base. It is super easy to top rope and check out the gear and the climbing if you chose to do so before leading. That's what I did.
There are a heck of a lot of "safe" routes in welsford. Does it not make sense to leave a few spicey ones out there as well? The "R" rating should prevent anyone from getting on the route unprepared.

[Dom]

Not to stir the pot too too much - but realistically how many leaders are climbing 'R' rated routes?

generally the leaders I'm with by-pass R routes...

a shame for this 'awesome' route to go unclimbed because of a bolt.

Stacey,

Stir away! I think it's great this is being discussed before the steal goes in.
I agree with you in most cases. I am by no means a bold climber. This route, in my opinion, is an exception. The top of the route can be accessed in under 1 minute from the base. It is super easy to top rope and check out the gear and the climbing if you chose to do so before leading. That's what I did.
There are a heck of a lot of "safe" routes in welsford. Does it not make sense to leave a few spicey ones out there as well? The "R" rating should prevent anyone from getting on the route unprepared.

Although I am labelled as a sport climber (even tho I don't wear spandex), I agree with Greg K. that this route is different than a lot of other R rated routes and should not get bolted. It's so easy to access the top that I think regardless if the route gets a bolt or not, it will still primarily get top-roped.

Stacey I think it's healthy for community members to question certain decisions from FA's and am glad you did!

Andrew, again thanks for cleaning those routes!

[Andrew]

Excellent. So most are agreed that I can leave them natural and those who want to lead Diode with an R rating will be labeled resident 'Hardmen' or 'Hardwomen'.

No bolts will be installed, but I might cut down those two trees and install bolts...

Thanks for the discussion everyone.