Speak Up!

[*Chris*]

There are clearly 2 schools of thought on modifying existing routes:
A) The FFA must give permission to any change
B) The prevailing opinion of the active community must support any change

There is also a clean break in our community regarding which school of thought is appropriate when an A-B conflict arises. That sucks... but it's just the way it is.

It's difficult to capture the true 'prevailing opinion' of the community. We are left with just those opinions who post to this site, a small number of whom are vocal on bolt issues (myself, Steve, Adam, Fred, PJ, Dom, etc). Predictably, reasonable discussions are sometimes disregarded as 'just the opinion of a small vocal minority'.

Now I know for a fact that many Welsford climbers regularly read this forum but purposefully do not post to it. They feel there is a stigma about having a forum personality, or often they tell me they don't want to get involved in the beautiful flowers that takes place. I can understand that... I really can. That said, I don't think this forum is all beautiful flowers. We all know each other in person.

I think this forum would be a lot more constructive if those silent climbers would simply contribute their opinions. It's particularly compelling when someone who is often quiet speaks up on an issue.

Your opinions can't be wrong... and I for one would like to hear them.

[Matt Peck]

For the record Im in total agreement with Chris on this one. I think what you said about a vocal minority is very true, and that the only way we're going to have a good barometer on the situation is for people to stand up and make the views of the majority known. This isn't just an old sox club any more, and weekly discussions over a brew after climbing on the weekend is going to leave a lot of input out.


Im of the opinion that Option A must be considered before an alteration is done, to be followed and if needed, overruled by option B. The first for tradition, and the second for respect. All route authors have to life with the possiblity that someone down the line is going to change their route, and it's been a good option so far to at least try and contact author's before "gettin er done". If there is a difficulty here, then put the issue up to community debate.

The forum provides a good (but agreeably, not perfect) mode for this sort of thing. If people have a beef with a proposed idea, and don't say anything after reading about it (we've all done this), than can we really get upset if the motion is carried? Many people don't like to participate here for whatever stigma they feel exists, but this is probably the best tool we have unless everyone climbing in NB wants to get together weekly at the Rogue for a brew & stew. (Id love for that to happen, but it's unlikely).

my 2 cents.

[Joe]

Just because someone doesn't provide unsolicited opinion on this forum doesn't mean that they don't have a voice. For example, Cory had requested input before his decision to remove the bolt from Sticky Fingers in the best possible way - at the cliff from climbers who recently climbed the route. Yes, this forum is a convenient way to sample climbers attitudes across the province, but it should not be considered the only way. There are lots of climbers out there who climb more than they type, and their input gathered at the cliff or climbing wall is just as important. And frankly, whether a bolt or two is or is not stuck on a chunk of rock is environmentally and socially benign. We fight over grains of sand.

[Adam]

Cory had requested input before his decision to remove the bolt from Sticky Fingers in the best possible way - at the cliff from climbers who recently climbed the route.

this is subjective. he got the input from a single climber who just climbed the route, whereas he had already been witness to the discussion online contributed to by many climbers. I think he would have done the community better service by inviting interested parties to climb the route together and come to a decision since there did seem to be such a variety of opinions. in contrast, when i saw from input online that the majority felt the same about anubis as i did, i did not think to extend that same gesture, but perhaps i should have.

in the end i think this forum is ultimately the best place to start such a discussion if you are hoping to garner the widest range and most plentiful of opinions. and i'd say that the best place to end the discussion is together, at the cliff.