strata factor direct

[Fred]

As another thought, the only time a first ascentionist should have exclusive claim on a climb is when they place pro from the ground up on lead. If the pro is placed on top rope then I think the climbing community as a whole has an equal say in the placement of the pro.

what British climbing textbook is that out of??? hehe

[chossmonkey]

As another thought, the only time a first ascentionist should have exclusive claim on a climb is when they place pro from the ground up on lead. If the pro is placed on top rope then I think the climbing community as a whole has an equal say in the placement of the pro.

what British climbing textbook is that out of??? hehe

It is the rule of thumb at some sport crags. If a route was put up in an attempt to be safe, i.e. rap bolted, etc, if the community feels it is unsafe (not to be confused with heady), or has badly placed bolts, it is fair game to be fixed.

Its a bit more blurry when you start getting into mixed gear routes.

[STeveA]

When I lived in Ottawa there was one climber who would clean and top rope a route to the point that he had it wired. He would then lead it, and because he had the first ascent it could not be changed. The routes were all dangerously runout and never saw a second lead. They would be popular top ropes because the climbs were superb. However, since the first ascentionist had led them in the bold style (after many, many top ropes) they remained as was. This is an extreme example and most of the community felt it was wrong, but it is hard to go against tradition. If I had stayed in Ottawa much longer than I did, I would have added bolts to the routes since I do not believe someone who has top roped a route over 30 times (in some cases) is really the right person to decide the protection of the route. The first onsight lead would definately have a better claim.

Fred, the British climbing would not have any bolts and the climbs would all be E11s. I do not have the balls for that which is why I am glad to climb in New Brunswick.