Quick-Clip Anchors at Sunnyside

[Dom]

My advice would be to anyone (not just Caldsy) that before calling for routes to be retro-bolted against the clear wishes of the FA, one should at very least climb them on top-rope first. After that, you may find that you'd like to save these routes in their present condition such that you've got the challenge to build up to in the future. Then again... you may not.

I've lead every single trad route at sunnyside except Castor and tortillons. I've also lead Gamma Burst, Covalence and Smells like rain, taste like chicken on gear. I'm still glad the last three are bolted.

Aside for H-Bomb and Man up Beaver, I vouch for other routes to be retro'ed. That being said, I won't lose sleep if they don't.

Out of all of this what I got is that Adam and Dom are volunteering to scrub these cracks!

haha I do my fair share of scrubbing but certainly won't go near these dirty routes. They'd have to get scrubbed again in 3 years anyways.

[*Chris*]

Dom and Fred. I'm well aware that you two have been up these climbs. So have I. So the three of us have reached our opinions from some experience. I personally think bolts would be a good fit here as well. However, I think a few folks were suggesting bolts before they'd been on the routes in question. I'm just encouraging the idea of giving them a climb on top-rope before coming to a conclusion. That's all.

Incidentally... I'm going to ask the FA if he wants to climb these routes with me tomorrow night. It will be interesting to see if the current condition influences his opinion.

[Caldsy]

[quote="*Chris*"]Dom and Fred. I'm well aware that you two have been up these climbs. So have I. So the three of us have reached our opinions from some experience. I personally think bolts would be a good fit here as well. However, I think a few folks were suggesting bolts before they'd been on the routes in question. I'm just encouraging the idea of giving them a climb on top-rope before coming to a conclusion. That's all. quote]

You and PJ are right in saying that I should at least try them on TR before making a judgement call (especially where I'm still new to the climbing scene). I was just thinking out loud seen as how they are getting dirty because no one is climbing them.

[Shawn B]

This is a definite non-issue. FA doesn't want the route bolted, the route doesn't get bolted.
-PJ

Yup....non-issue. They were asked, said no, time to move on.

[*Chris*]

H-Bomb and N.S.P. were climbed last night by myself and the FA. Both were also scrubbed for about an hour although neither were as dirty as expected. We both agreed that the gear protection is very good. He considered bolts but thought they should stay as is. Get on me... They are nice. An anchor will be added to N.S.P. to direct rope out of a crack below the tree and make top-roping more feasible. Cheers

[Andrew]

Dom & anyone interested,

Snakes & Arrows - If any experienced climber & bolter would like to install lead bolts on this route, that would be okay with me. I didn't install bolts on this route for fear of upsetting anti-bolt people. Also, if it doesn't currently have a top anchor other than the tree, I think it would be great if they were to be added in the form of a sleeved chain around the tree or bolts with rap ring hangers.

For the Thrill of it All - Do not bolt this route. The only bolting I would agree to on this route would be within the last 10 feet area. I remember that section being run out a little and having to hunt way off side to find a spot.

I will likely be unavailable to get to any cliffs until October or later this year, so with that said, if some people want to go scout a placement for one bolt near the top of FTTOIA and tell me what they think, it could be bolted.

If these routes get to the point of someone saying they'll bolt it, email me F2E8 at HOTMAIL dot COM and we'll work out the details (I don't frequent the forum these days - hope to again soon).


Climb on!!

Andrew

A few don't have some though because:
A. ...
B. ...
C. They are trad route at Sunnyside so they never get climbed (e.g. H-Bomb, Snakes and arrows)
D. ...

I think they should be made into sport routes [/q

I've discussed the topic with the FA of H-Bomb, Nuclear Sausage Particles, and Man-Up-Beaver. Since he's not a member of the forum I can tell you that he does not want to see bolts on these lines.

oh i know he doesn't want them bolted. just voicing my opinion. would bolting them make the crag better? only in the sense that more people would actually climb the routes. seeing them get dirtier and dirtier doesn't make people want to climb them. and no, i'm not suggest we go bolt it against HBomb's wishes (or Burley as i believe he was co-FA on one or two of them).

Agreed, they never get climbed ever! Hey Andrew would you be willing to give the ok to bolt your pg trad routes at sunnyside.

Again if this was Granite like in Cl we wouldn't even be talking about this...but it's not so it's a valid discussion IMO. In Rumney they have been retrobolting seldom climbed trad routes and now they see traffic.

When I set-up routes my objective is for others to also enjoy it. It feels gratifying when someone comes up to me and says ''Hey man climbed your route X, it's awesome..."

Kinda like people said for your route Dying Embers Andrew. Now how many people said that for the PG trad routes you've cleaned at Sunnyside...Just a thought I'm not picking on you personally but on the fact that these routes are never ever climbed and it's a shame...


My 0.02$

[GKelly]

Hey Andrew, I don't think for the thrill of it all requires a bolt. If the leader can get through the first 10 ft they will have no problem with the last ten. Also, There is a unique but pretty good nut placement in the final little bit. It is right in line. Just my opinion.

[Dom]

Dom & anyone interested,

Snakes & Arrows - If any experienced climber & bolter would like to install lead bolts on this route, that would be okay with me. I didn't install bolts on this route for fear of upsetting anti-bolt people. Also, if it doesn't currently have a top anchor other than the tree, I think it would be great if they were to be added in the form of a sleeved chain around the tree or bolts with rap ring hangers.

Hey Andrew I think if this line was bolted, it would be the easiest sport route at Sunnyside so it would definitely see some traffic. Anyways, you won't upset 'anti-bolt people' as this is a sport crag that has precedents of bolted cracks. (e.g. covalence, gamma burst). I'll volunteer to bolt it if you wish. Also, the anchor will be bolts with Quick-clips. This is now the ethics at Sunnyside

[Andrew]

Dom,

Go ahead and bolt Snakes & Arrows. It'll be fun to go lead it again on bolts.

I'm sure everyone will be on it after that. It's a fun route for sure.

Andrew

Dom & anyone interested,

Snakes & Arrows - If any experienced climber & bolter would like to install lead bolts on this route, that would be okay with me. I didn't install bolts on this route for fear of upsetting anti-bolt people. Also, if it doesn't currently have a top anchor other than the tree, I think it would be great if they were to be added in the form of a sleeved chain around the tree or bolts with rap ring hangers.

Hey Andrew I think if this line was bolted, it would be the easiest sport route at Sunnyside so it would definitely see some traffic. Anyways, you won't upset 'anti-bolt people' as this is a sport crag that has precedents of bolted cracks. (e.g. covalence, gamma burst). I'll volunteer to bolt it if you wish. Also, the anchor will be bolts with Quick-clips. This is now the ethics at Sunnyside

[Dom]

Dom,

Go ahead and bolt Snakes & Arrows. It'll be fun to go lead it again on bolts.

I'm sure everyone will be on it after that. It's a fun route for sure.

Andrew

Dom & anyone interested,

Snakes & Arrows - If any experienced climber & bolter would like to install lead bolts on this route, that would be okay with me. I didn't install bolts on this route for fear of upsetting anti-bolt people. Also, if it doesn't currently have a top anchor other than the tree, I think it would be great if they were to be added in the form of a sleeved chain around the tree or bolts with rap ring hangers.

Hey Andrew I think if this line was bolted, it would be the easiest sport route at Sunnyside so it would definitely see some traffic. Anyways, you won't upset 'anti-bolt people' as this is a sport crag that has precedents of bolted cracks. (e.g. covalence, gamma burst). I'll volunteer to bolt it if you wish. Also, the anchor will be bolts with Quick-clips. This is now the ethics at Sunnyside

Marty and I retro-bolted Snakes & Arrows at Sunnyside on Thursday. This is now the easiest sport route in Sunnyside and clocks in at either 5.5 or 5.6. A great candidate for a first lead!

[Matt Peck]

*crane's ear as if hearing distant thunder*
"Is that a bolt debate I hear? Oh man, I'd better get off my pile of old hexes and cams and come back to the forum!"
Hey all, This is a bit of an interesting thread you've got going here! Might as well chime in: Please don't bolt those routes. As a climber who had a part in putting them up, I'd be mighty sad to see shiny bolts on those routes. For me I guess the use of the route is irrelevant, they are instead a trust that we hold onto and use for a while before we hand them on to the next generation. The moment we put bolts on a route we change them forever, and for routes such as these, where they can safely be climbed after a little cleaning on trad, they should be left alone. ESPECIALLY if that's the FA's wish to do so.
Also, I object to the illustration of the Trad Climber above. The mug should be full of scotch, not tea. Thank you.
Cheers all.
Matthew.

[Adam]

Please don't bolt those routes. As a climber who had a part in putting them up, I'd be mighty sad to see shiny bolts on those routes.

which routes are you referring to exactly? They got Andrew's permission for Snakes and Ladders, and I'm not really aware of what routes you put up at Sunnyside (or elsewhere) that you're worried will be bolted.