The new spot

[Ian_the_Barbarian]

If people were offended by our opinion....

again. Not offended by your opinion itself. Opinion is opinion and its retarded to even argue about it most of the time. I just found it a bit much to imply that anyone present was involved in damaging the image of climbers in new brunswick as a whole (a dubious suggestion), and that the new climbers who didn't know better should need to be forgiven when no forgiveness was asked.

Its ok though...it really doesn't matter. The discussion here has probably been seen by everybody by now and they all have a view on the matter. The anti-painters (for lack of a better term) raised enough awareness on this forum alone to make anyone think twice about site impact, and that's about the best thing they can accomplish; make everyone aware how their actions might influence others' enjoyment of a site and disputes liek this are less likely to arise.

Aaaaaanyways. I get the feeling I'm beating it to death a bit, so that's it for me. Thanks for the info A-holes.

(joking about the a-holes thing...haha)

[Fred]

do you guys have pics? of the cliffs I mean not the painting

[Ian_the_Barbarian]

I think sean's got a couple. Just pics of people climbing though, not much of the cliffs. We might go out th'weekend though, I'll take a bunch if you want

[Nihoa]

Trees and lichen grow back. paint will be there forever. And most people when the clean routes/problems are careful to only clean what is necessary.

i dont want to continue to dredge up an argument and this may be nit-picky but im afraid that this statement is far from true. the paint used was acrylic and was easily removed with a steel brush (when one of the names was changed). as ian said, its doubtfull the paint would last the winter even if it didnt get removed by fred

some lichens grow quickly and in full sun, others do not. some species require the shade of the trees we cut down both because they cannot handle direct sunlight and also because shaded rock is wetter. i estimate some of the trees we cut down could have been as old as 30 while most are maybe 10-15. at any rate, it will be at least 15-20 years (providing we allow it) before the rock is shaded by trees again. it will be at least that long before lichens requiring shaded, wetter conditions will be able to repopulate the rock. there are also species of moss, fern, herbs, and grasses that require these conditions for growth. and im sure it is the same with certain species of insects and perhaps even birds nesting along the cliff

my point: the disagreement is simple 'i dont like painted routes vs. i like painted routes'. there are no ecological or biophysical reasons not to paint given the other levels of disturbance to the site

[jeremy]

Your right, shade tollerant species do take a long time to reproduce and populate an area. So I'm confused...... You agree with cara that the ferns and trees will grow back

jeremy

[Fred]

well I'm not a forester but I do know that my eye would certainly notice grafiti on rock before some scrubbing

[Fred]

You guys are a bunch of (content moderated) whiners. The way I see it if you don't own the property shut the (content moderated) up and just climb.

I like ropeguys idea Florecent, Welsford would look really pretty.


Jeff

For the record. This post was not from Jeff Hum.

[Nihoa]

Your right, shade tollerant species do take a long time to reproduce and populate an area. So I'm confused...... You agree with cara that the ferns and trees will grow back

jeremy

i agree they will grow back if it was decided to let them, i disagree that itll happen before the paint wears off...

mark

[martha]

i agree they will grow back if it was decided to let them, i disagree that itll happen before the paint wears off...

mark

The woodlot was completely free of lichen and moss the summer before last. now every single route in there is covered with an inch of slime. Routes in welsford that were once cleaned off.. like on Simpson wall, are now covered in moss/lichen again after years of little traffic.

yes, I understand there are many factors to how quickly moss will grow back etc, but the fact is that it will....eventually. A few years from now (or sooner) people won't go to that area for bouldering as they will have climbed it all. (just like the woodlot) and it will be several years before a new batch of climbers goes back to it. (just like the woodlot) and the lichen will need to be scrubbed off some of the routes again. Not all the species I'm sure..but some of them on some of the routes. But, the paint remains. hopefully like you said, it will not survive the winter. The routes will still be there in spring. that is good.