The end of stiff grades?

[theriault]

These are all just extreme circumstances, and considering a poorly bolted route (AKA a sudden spike in difficulty just before the 2nd bolt).

I think you just answered your own question....

[sam]

These are all just extreme circumstances, and considering a poorly bolted route (AKA a sudden spike in difficulty just before the 2nd bolt).

I think you just answered your own question....

The point is, what logic is there behind intentionally misleading people as per the difficulty? As far as I've seen, you guys are saying "to throw climbers a curve-ball!", and that's just not something I see the vast majority of climbers (especially newbies, of which there are a growing number) wanting during their climbs.

I personally don't think "because of the history" qualifies as valid logic in this situation, especially considering they expanded on the grading system for the very purpose of removing the ambiguity of the "+" grades.

[Shawn B]

Its to keep an element of adventure, a spice factor. Climbers used to be for hard men with big balls, if you didn't have a good head back then, then you simply didn't climb. Protection has come a long way since then making the sport way more safe,. Guide books are now showing us exactly where the routes starts, a description of it, protection, anchors and sometimes even some key beta.... where is the element of adventure in that?? So its just a simple way to keep some excitement in the sport!

Are ya serious??? Did I read wrong then that you were selling your hexes and tricams? Shouldn't you be selling your cams instead??

Some people who sandbag climb at such a level that they seriously have difficulty in telling the difference between grades at a moderate level. Some people are strong at certain types of climbing too and find routes that suit their style to be easier than other people who are strong at a different style. Others who sandbag on purpose (stating it as a joke, prank or to "school" someone) are just trying to inflate their own ego (my 5.8 is everyone else's 5.10) or trying to make up for some other feeling of inadequacy. For fack sake...grade as accurately, objectively and honestly as you can. Climbing is dangerous enough without "teaching someone else a lesson in your greatness". Climbing is not safe. It has been made safER by the advances in gear, guidebooks, online resources, etc. But it is still not SAFE. Not even sport climbing. You're only kidding yourself if you think it is.

[theriault]

Its to keep an element of adventure, a spice factor. Climbers used to be for hard men with big balls, if you didn't have a good head back then, then you simply didn't climb. Protection has come a long way since then making the sport way more safe,. Guide books are now showing us exactly where the routes starts, a description of it, protection, anchors and sometimes even some key beta.... where is the element of adventure in that?? So its just a simple way to keep some excitement in the sport!

Are ya serious??? Did I read wrong then that you were selling your hexes and tricams? Shouldn't you be selling your cams instead??

Some people who sandbag climb at such a level that they seriously have difficulty in telling the difference between grades at a moderate level. Some people are strong at certain types of climbing too and find routes that suit their style to be easier than other people who are strong at a different style. Others who sandbag on purpose (stating it as a joke, prank or to "school" someone) are just trying to inflate their own ego (my 5.8 is everyone else's 5.10) or trying to make up for some other feeling of inadequacy. For fack sake...grade as accurately, objectively and honestly as you can. Climbing is dangerous enough without "teaching someone else a lesson in your greatness". Climbing is not safe. It has been made safER by the advances in gear, guidebooks, online resources, etc. But it is still not SAFE. Not even sport climbing. You're only kidding yourself if you think it is.

Nicely said Shawn,
and eh PS, you signature block does say "Safety third!!!"

[sam]

grade as accurately, objectively and honestly as you can. Climbing is dangerous enough without "teaching someone else a lesson in your greatness".

In addition, climbing is dangerous enough without "grading something in 2012 as if it were 1965, because... have a history lesson?".

[Shawn B]

And oh...btw...waterfall layback was originally graded 5.8...not 5.9. And boulevard 5.3 by the same folks.

[theriault]

And oh...btw...waterfall layback was originally graded 5.8...not 5.9.

I have a copy of the original guidebook (C. Bell 1978?) and yeah its not only 5.8 but the only 5.8 and hardest route in CL!!! pretty cool!

[Leehammer]

Hey Marty, if I was going to assign a grade to how hard it is to follow your logic, I would say it's about a 6 (but it's actually a 9)

[theriault]

Hey Marty, if I was going to assign a grade to how hard it is to follow your logic, I would say it's about a 6 (but it's actually a 9)

Don't worry, I have the same problem sometimes! HAHA I'm way better at campfire debates than online crap

[Nihoa]

Sandbagging sorta seems like teabagging.

[breau]

Isn't sandbagging a little like drawing a map wrong? Mostly, it's funny for people who didn't really need a map in the first place.

[gwa]

Hmmm, I've noticed in my travels that climbers love to call their home crag sandbagged. I've been guilty of it too.

Hope you're still enjoying some warm rock in NB. It's a bit nippy out here in the Chossies.

Cheers!

Graham

[sam]

Isn't sandbagging a little like drawing a map wrong? Mostly, it's funny for people who didn't really need a map in the first place.

LOL very well put, brilliant